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I do not understand minimalism or minimalist culture. When I see rationalizations about getting rid of 'stuff', I can understand some of those things, but at so

by lolsal 10y ago

I do not understand minimalism or minimalist culture. When I see rationalizations about getting rid of 'stuff', I can understand some of those things, but at some point for me there is a line where minimalism becomes some sort of self-congratulatory narcissism. I enjoy having friends over - playing board games, video games, cooking meals together, watching movies together, etc. All of that requires some sort of 'stuff': the board game, the television, the kitchen with more than 1 plate. I have more 'stuff', but I am not unhappier for it. The stuff enriches my life through experiences that I have with that stuff. The author seems pre-occupied with financial concerns - rent for his apartment, cost of cars and clothes - it seems he may be getting more benefit out of the financial security that this minimalism has afforded him than any sort of actual enlightenment through lack of 'stuff'.

Delmania 10y ago
This was a telling quote from the article: >I broke up with my girlfriend, telling her I couldn’t see a future for us in my sad financial state. Minimalism holds the same attachment to physical possessions that consumerism does, but it associates negatives feelings as opposed to positive ones. It's like love and hate. Hate is not the opposite of love, but the other end of the spectrum. Rather than getting a sense of self worth from having things, he's getting a sense of self worth from NOT having things. The opposite of consumerism is a person who's happy with the stuff he has. When the opportunity arises to get something nicer, he takes advantage of it, but he doesn't actively go out and buy something new. Sure, that person may feel a twinge of jealously at people having nicer things, but he simply lets those emotions pass without acting on them. Acceptance and detachment.
- collyw 10y ago
  > When the opportunity arises to get something nicer, he takes advantage of it, but he doesn't actively go out and buy something new. So where does upgrading to the latest iPhone every release fit? It seems to fit your above phrase as well as consumerism.
  - tedmiston 10y ago
    It doesn't but every minimalist has their own personal exceptions. As with most things in life achieving 100% is more idealism than realism. http://mnmlist.com/iphone/ http://mnmlist.com/iphone/ https://zenhabits.net/whyphone/ https://zenhabits.net/whyphone/ Plus working in tech, not having the latest (or one gen prior) iPhone, often means not being able to run new apps.
  - Delmania 10y ago
    > So where does upgrading to the latest iPhone every release fit? It seems to fit your above phrase as well as consumerism. This was actually the example I had in my head, I should have detailed it out. The answer is you don't upgrade. So long as the phone works and you're satisfied with it, there's no compelling reason. If you drop and break the phone, that would be a time to upgrade it. If you get a really great deal, that would be the time to upgrade it. Sure you may (as I do) feel a twinge of jealousy at people with nicer phones, but you don't act on it.
coldtea 10y ago
>I do not understand minimalism or minimalist culture. When I see rationalizations about getting rid of 'stuff', I can understand some of those things, but at some point for me there is a line where minimalism becomes some sort of self-congratulatory narcissism That's the same with everything else, including charity work, "at some point". That doesn't mean minimalism doesn't have its use. If anything, a little excess to that direction is fine, as we're way over beyond to the opposite side in modern societies (to the detriment of the environment, our savings, our financial freedom, etc).
maxxxxx 10y ago
At least the author is not the typical "minimalist" who either has a rich dad or some million in the bank after selling his company.
tedmiston 10y ago
They are not necessarily rationalizations — that may be your own internal perspective biasing what you hear. You can also probably imagine a point where having too many board games would be feel burdensome — 10? 100? 1000? And then consider that that number varies highly by person. Personally I own zero board games, but there is a board game parlor in walking distance from my apartment, and friends have great ones like CAH. Nothing self-congratulatory about it for me — it's just simpler to own and maintain less things. Then when you do own less things, you are more particular about the specific things you do choose to let into your life, opt-in vs opt-out.
balladeer 10y ago
In a way it feels the same way how some people behave with respect to their lack of belief in a God entity. They are so militant and fussy about being an atheist that they end up making atheism another religion in various ways. Anyway, there was this blogger who wrote on minimalism (quite famous in circles where people celebrate anything by Apple). I realised how his posts contained thousands of words about something as banal as a standing desk (yeah it was from the time when those desks were the new wheel or fire). And that too with too many glossy and (what I call) subtly pretentious shots of Moleskins, fountain pens, glasses, empty wine bottles away from that desk but in focus and what not. Note that those photos were heavily edited, with many filters applied on them. It was anything but minimalism. Most of the readings I've done on minimalism defeats the very purpose of minimalism.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by lolsal 10y ago

Delmania 10y ago

This was a telling quote from the article: >I broke up with my girlfriend, telling her I couldn’t see a future for us in my sad financial state. Minimalism holds the same attachment to physical possessions that consumerism does, but it associates negatives feelings as opposed to positive ones. It's like love and hate. Hate is not the opposite of love, but the other end of the spectrum. Rather than getting a sense of self worth from having things, he's getting a sense of self worth from NOT having things. The opposite of consumerism is a person who's happy with the stuff he has. When the opportunity arises to get something nicer, he takes advantage of it, but he doesn't actively go out and buy something new. Sure, that person may feel a twinge of jealously at people having nicer things, but he simply lets those emotions pass without acting on them. Acceptance and detachment.

collyw 10y ago
> When the opportunity arises to get something nicer, he takes advantage of it, but he doesn't actively go out and buy something new. So where does upgrading to the latest iPhone every release fit? It seems to fit your above phrase as well as consumerism.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  It doesn't but every minimalist has their own personal exceptions. As with most things in life achieving 100% is more idealism than realism. http://mnmlist.com/iphone/ http://mnmlist.com/iphone/ https://zenhabits.net/whyphone/ https://zenhabits.net/whyphone/ Plus working in tech, not having the latest (or one gen prior) iPhone, often means not being able to run new apps.
- Delmania 10y ago
  > So where does upgrading to the latest iPhone every release fit? It seems to fit your above phrase as well as consumerism. This was actually the example I had in my head, I should have detailed it out. The answer is you don't upgrade. So long as the phone works and you're satisfied with it, there's no compelling reason. If you drop and break the phone, that would be a time to upgrade it. If you get a really great deal, that would be the time to upgrade it. Sure you may (as I do) feel a twinge of jealousy at people with nicer phones, but you don't act on it.

coldtea 10y ago

>I do not understand minimalism or minimalist culture. When I see rationalizations about getting rid of 'stuff', I can understand some of those things, but at some point for me there is a line where minimalism becomes some sort of self-congratulatory narcissism That's the same with everything else, including charity work, "at some point". That doesn't mean minimalism doesn't have its use. If anything, a little excess to that direction is fine, as we're way over beyond to the opposite side in modern societies (to the detriment of the environment, our savings, our financial freedom, etc).

maxxxxx 10y ago

At least the author is not the typical "minimalist" who either has a rich dad or some million in the bank after selling his company.

tedmiston 10y ago

They are not necessarily rationalizations — that may be your own internal perspective biasing what you hear. You can also probably imagine a point where having too many board games would be feel burdensome — 10? 100? 1000? And then consider that that number varies highly by person. Personally I own zero board games, but there is a board game parlor in walking distance from my apartment, and friends have great ones like CAH. Nothing self-congratulatory about it for me — it's just simpler to own and maintain less things. Then when you do own less things, you are more particular about the specific things you do choose to let into your life, opt-in vs opt-out.

balladeer 10y ago

In a way it feels the same way how some people behave with respect to their lack of belief in a God entity. They are so militant and fussy about being an atheist that they end up making atheism another religion in various ways. Anyway, there was this blogger who wrote on minimalism (quite famous in circles where people celebrate anything by Apple). I realised how his posts contained thousands of words about something as banal as a standing desk (yeah it was from the time when those desks were the new wheel or fire). And that too with too many glossy and (what I call) subtly pretentious shots of Moleskins, fountain pens, glasses, empty wine bottles away from that desk but in focus and what not. Note that those photos were heavily edited, with many filters applied on them. It was anything but minimalism. Most of the readings I've done on minimalism defeats the very purpose of minimalism.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]