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"WeChat defies the popular belief that growth is all about user growth. Instead they think about growth as increasing value (e.g., the number of tasks WeChat ca

by state 9y ago

"WeChat defies the popular belief that growth is all about user growth. Instead they think about growth as increasing value (e.g., the number of tasks WeChat can do in the daily lives of users). Unlike other social products, WeChat does not only measure growth by number of users or messages sent. Instead they also focus on measuring how deeply is the product engaged in every aspect of daily life (e.g., the number of tasks WeChat can help with in a day)." 100 times this. I can't think of a single large Western consumer software company who can actually think like that. It has become a commonplace that WeChat is incredible, and everyone over here wants to build it. But solving that problem is hard. Really hard.

vtange 9y ago
Isn't there inherent risk in centralizing / relying on one app for so many activities? There are already many in the West that try to avoid relying on everything Facebook or Google due to privacy/security concerns. I'm surprised that Chinese are willing to put all their eggs in WeChat's basket, given their belief that American apps spy on their users.
- state 9y ago
  That's exactly what makes the problem so interesting. The user experience of WeChat is clearly great, but that level of centralization really wouldn't fly over here.
  - apexalpha 9y ago
    I don't know I don't think people care. Look at Google, the web is, in many parts of the Western world, mostly Google. Many people, including me, use *.google.com as a one-stop shop for all their software needs.
  - anuh 9y ago
    I think we are used to using multiple apps for different services because that is how it started. However if we were used to using one app for everything, things would have been different
    - xbeta 9y ago
      Is Internet that "One-App-for-Everything"? I saw WeChat is rebuilding its own Internet there. And everything is building on top of that ecosystem.
  - chillacy 9y ago
    I dunno, I'm pretty tied into the Apple ecosystem. I'm only okay with it because they're very principled on privacy, and will probably be around for a long time. But all my photos, contacts, and lots of my data are all with apple. I suspect many users have even more tied up with Google on Android.
nebabyte 9y ago
> It has become a commonplace that WeChat is incredible, and everyone over here wants to build it. By expanding their platforms into other tasks that other people already know how to do better, do competitively, and have a greater mindshare of. It's possible for two different environments with two different sets of ideals to exist without either one being "more right".
Markoff 9y ago
it's not hard, let government block all your international competitors and you will see astonishing growth in brainwashed spoon-fed population only people amazed by wechat are those who never lived in China next time - Democratic party would like to repeat success of CCP, they get 100% of votes! same goes for railways, all companies in liberalized European market are crying tears and wanna go learn from Chinese state monopoly railways how to win the market
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Companies maybe, their customers is a different story.
  - Markoff 9y ago
    what about customers? so customers have pretty much huge options, you can choose either WeChat, WeChat or Wechat, what will be your choice? kudoz to WeChat for success in such competitive market! /s
    - anuh 9y ago
      There were quite a few local Chinese competitors to WeChat when it originally launched. It took them almost a year to surpass Xiaomi's MiTalk user numbers.
      - Markoff 9y ago
        no, not really, when they launched QQ was big and I was just surprised why some people have different status to find out it's wechat, but anyway QQ was dominating markets, everything else including Xiaomi or MSN had just leftovers
jtraffic 9y ago
>I can't think of a single large Western consumer software company who can actually think like that I don't feel this is particularly novel, though perhaps it is to software companies (I don't know, honestly). But this idea feels a lot like "Market Penetration" as defined in the context of the Ansoff Matrix (introduced in 1957): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansoff_Matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansoff_Matrix It's Marketing 101 stuff, and lots of big corporations, in old industries, employ this approach.
beambot 9y ago
That metric can be tricky. Balancing "one thing exceedingly well" -vs- "does lots of things" is non-trivial... For example, it is my personal opinion that Evernote has failed in this balance and now suffers because of it.
mbesto 9y ago
> 100 times this. I can't think of a single large Western consumer software company who can actually think like that. I'm pretty sure execs from Google/Facebook/Apple think like this, it's just you don't read about it on TechCrunch, nor do they publicize it to their investors.
- EnFinlay 9y ago
  I would disagree with this. Facebook definitely has no problem creating an endless stream of content with >5% ad density.
  - nickonline 9y ago
    But WeChat with all it's diverse functionality gets used as much as Facebook across their own portfolio. > use the app an average of 50+ minutes, and 9 to 11 separate times, per day2. To put that in context, it is the same as the “combined time” users spend across a portfolio of Facebook apps
    - anuh 9y ago
      50% of WeChat users use it for 90 mins. Also the team really focuses on user efficiency -I.e.,, completing the task quickly and in the most efficient way

by state 9y ago

vtange 9y ago

Isn't there inherent risk in centralizing / relying on one app for so many activities? There are already many in the West that try to avoid relying on everything Facebook or Google due to privacy/security concerns. I'm surprised that Chinese are willing to put all their eggs in WeChat's basket, given their belief that American apps spy on their users.

state 9y ago
That's exactly what makes the problem so interesting. The user experience of WeChat is clearly great, but that level of centralization really wouldn't fly over here.
- apexalpha 9y ago
  I don't know I don't think people care. Look at Google, the web is, in many parts of the Western world, mostly Google. Many people, including me, use *.google.com as a one-stop shop for all their software needs.
- anuh 9y ago
  I think we are used to using multiple apps for different services because that is how it started. However if we were used to using one app for everything, things would have been different
  - xbeta 9y ago
    Is Internet that "One-App-for-Everything"? I saw WeChat is rebuilding its own Internet there. And everything is building on top of that ecosystem.
- chillacy 9y ago
  I dunno, I'm pretty tied into the Apple ecosystem. I'm only okay with it because they're very principled on privacy, and will probably be around for a long time. But all my photos, contacts, and lots of my data are all with apple. I suspect many users have even more tied up with Google on Android.

nebabyte 9y ago

> It has become a commonplace that WeChat is incredible, and everyone over here wants to build it. By expanding their platforms into other tasks that other people already know how to do better, do competitively, and have a greater mindshare of. It's possible for two different environments with two different sets of ideals to exist without either one being "more right".

Markoff 9y ago

it's not hard, let government block all your international competitors and you will see astonishing growth in brainwashed spoon-fed population only people amazed by wechat are those who never lived in China next time - Democratic party would like to repeat success of CCP, they get 100% of votes! same goes for railways, all companies in liberalized European market are crying tears and wanna go learn from Chinese state monopoly railways how to win the market

digi_owl 9y ago
Companies maybe, their customers is a different story.
- Markoff 9y ago
  what about customers? so customers have pretty much huge options, you can choose either WeChat, WeChat or Wechat, what will be your choice? kudoz to WeChat for success in such competitive market! /s
  - anuh 9y ago
    There were quite a few local Chinese competitors to WeChat when it originally launched. It took them almost a year to surpass Xiaomi's MiTalk user numbers.
    - Markoff 9y ago
      no, not really, when they launched QQ was big and I was just surprised why some people have different status to find out it's wechat, but anyway QQ was dominating markets, everything else including Xiaomi or MSN had just leftovers

jtraffic 9y ago

>I can't think of a single large Western consumer software company who can actually think like that I don't feel this is particularly novel, though perhaps it is to software companies (I don't know, honestly). But this idea feels a lot like "Market Penetration" as defined in the context of the Ansoff Matrix (introduced in 1957): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansoff_Matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansoff_Matrix It's Marketing 101 stuff, and lots of big corporations, in old industries, employ this approach.

beambot 9y ago

That metric can be tricky. Balancing "one thing exceedingly well" -vs- "does lots of things" is non-trivial... For example, it is my personal opinion that Evernote has failed in this balance and now suffers because of it.

mbesto 9y ago

> 100 times this. I can't think of a single large Western consumer software company who can actually think like that. I'm pretty sure execs from Google/Facebook/Apple think like this, it's just you don't read about it on TechCrunch, nor do they publicize it to their investors.

EnFinlay 9y ago
I would disagree with this. Facebook definitely has no problem creating an endless stream of content with >5% ad density.
- nickonline 9y ago
  But WeChat with all it's diverse functionality gets used as much as Facebook across their own portfolio. > use the app an average of 50+ minutes, and 9 to 11 separate times, per day2. To put that in context, it is the same as the “combined time” users spend across a portfolio of Facebook apps
  - anuh 9y ago
    50% of WeChat users use it for 90 mins. Also the team really focuses on user efficiency -I.e.,, completing the task quickly and in the most efficient way