5 ms·

Booth Capturing and Ballot Stuffing were violent practices esp. in 80s and 90s in some places during Election. People actually died for every election cycle eit

by sremani 10y ago

Booth Capturing and Ballot Stuffing were violent practices esp. in 80s and 90s in some places during Election. People actually died for every election cycle either perpetrating or protesting these kind of things. Given the logistics, introduction of EVMs have reduced these kind of election day events, even though Election day violence is more clashes between supporters, the polling booths are much safer now than couple of decades ago.

srean 10y ago
I would argue that the methods of electoral fraud have changed. Now a days its more of "may I have your voter id card, why do you want to go out and vote, who knows what may happen, may be you will get a broken leg, may be your child will get one. Let me help you, I will cast the vote for you. You dont even need to show up....you know the broken leg and all...why take the risk"
- intended 10y ago
  Because it has changed. The EC actually works. If you knew anything about elections even 3 decades ago, the fact that India has managed to give most people an election which works, is fucking amazing. It's a fact woefully lost on the generations born after a certain point. I won't say voting machines are the magic to it all, but it did help a country with labor and service delivery issues to manage it better. EVMs were always hackable, but the critical man power and tech orientation in political parties to take advantage of this hasn't been there. This may only recently have changed. Even then I doubt it, there's other ways to win elections.
  - srean 10y ago
    > The EC actually works Sorry that's absolute bull. Apart from an exception or two ECs have been sycophantic puppets, ever ready to grovel. It seems you weren't born yesterday, neither was I, so you would know this. Even if EC intends to do good, he/she cant do much until there is a formal complaint raised by the district magistrate (many are simply bought out). So even if the opposition cries itself hoarse, EC does zilch. I am not making any claims about the EVMs, just that the electoral process is no where close to as clean many of its proponents claim it to be. Tech alone cannot solve this problem. What we have here is the analogue of rubber hose decryption.
    - viksit 10y ago
      > Sorry that's absolute bull. Apart from an exception or two ECs have been sycophantic puppets, ever ready to grovel. I strongly disagree with your assessment. The mechanics of what happens when polling starts as I remember it, - The EC assumes complete control over all civil services, including transferring people in response to independent assessment and complaints. - Courts in India can't interfere with the EC. The government is disallowed interference as well. The constitution guarantees this and has been upheld by judgments in the past years. - The chief EC commissioner can only be removed by impeachment in Parliament. The other two election commissioners can only be done so by the CEC's recommendation. - Senior officials from different states are election observers in other states - and they are liable to be suspended even if phone calls are recorded between them and a political appointee. - All paramilitary and police forces come under the command of the EC. As a result, they are free of machinations from the home ministry which is usually responsible for their control. - Candidates make multiple reports during the campaign process and the EC does strict accounting for all this. It bans liquor sales and drafts banks to report any overt cash transactions. I don't know where you're getting your information from, when you were born, why you think the EC is sycophantic, or how that would even help - but the EC's role in the Indian elections is more like a safe maker trying to hoodwink the safe cracker - it will never be perfect, but given its many constitutionally guaranteed rights, it is agile enough to try and stay a few steps ahead of the curve. It is this very flexibility via which the ECI can even think about opening something like this up to a challenge.
      - srean 10y ago
        > I don't know where you're getting your information from, Using eyes and ears and just being aware of my surroundings. Trivial counterpoint. Pickup a state, say West Bengal. Count the number of egregious incidents of violence and intimidation reported by competing political parties and the media, including live videos. What action has the EC taken and what has that changed. > - The EC assumes complete control over all civil services, including transferring people in response to independent assessment and complaints. ... and then does what ? You are being completely naïve in the open bedfellows relationship with IAS and politicians. There are exceptions, but rare.
- fellellor 10y ago
  You are obviously a troll with zero intention to contribute to any meaningful conversation. Voter impersonation is not that easy with all ID card requirements. If it were we would have more difficult problems than a simple choice between paper ballot boxes an electronic voting machines and this conversation would be moot.
  - srean 10y ago
    > Voter impersonation is not that easy with all ID card requirements. I would make a far stronger claim, its actual non-trivially hard. But when the executive branch has been bought out by the incumbent govt (which is frequently the rule rather than the exception in many states) those technological and procedural hurdles dont amount to much. As I said it is not a technological problem. > You are obviously a troll with zero intention to contribute to any meaningful conversation I wish it was that. Sadly these are things that deeply affect human lives and their potential, and I dont know what to do about it

by sremani 10y ago

srean 10y ago

I would argue that the methods of electoral fraud have changed. Now a days its more of "may I have your voter id card, why do you want to go out and vote, who knows what may happen, may be you will get a broken leg, may be your child will get one. Let me help you, I will cast the vote for you. You dont even need to show up....you know the broken leg and all...why take the risk"

intended 10y ago
Because it has changed. The EC actually works. If you knew anything about elections even 3 decades ago, the fact that India has managed to give most people an election which works, is fucking amazing. It's a fact woefully lost on the generations born after a certain point. I won't say voting machines are the magic to it all, but it did help a country with labor and service delivery issues to manage it better. EVMs were always hackable, but the critical man power and tech orientation in political parties to take advantage of this hasn't been there. This may only recently have changed. Even then I doubt it, there's other ways to win elections.
- srean 10y ago
  > The EC actually works Sorry that's absolute bull. Apart from an exception or two ECs have been sycophantic puppets, ever ready to grovel. It seems you weren't born yesterday, neither was I, so you would know this. Even if EC intends to do good, he/she cant do much until there is a formal complaint raised by the district magistrate (many are simply bought out). So even if the opposition cries itself hoarse, EC does zilch. I am not making any claims about the EVMs, just that the electoral process is no where close to as clean many of its proponents claim it to be. Tech alone cannot solve this problem. What we have here is the analogue of rubber hose decryption.
  - viksit 10y ago
    > Sorry that's absolute bull. Apart from an exception or two ECs have been sycophantic puppets, ever ready to grovel. I strongly disagree with your assessment. The mechanics of what happens when polling starts as I remember it, - The EC assumes complete control over all civil services, including transferring people in response to independent assessment and complaints. - Courts in India can't interfere with the EC. The government is disallowed interference as well. The constitution guarantees this and has been upheld by judgments in the past years. - The chief EC commissioner can only be removed by impeachment in Parliament. The other two election commissioners can only be done so by the CEC's recommendation. - Senior officials from different states are election observers in other states - and they are liable to be suspended even if phone calls are recorded between them and a political appointee. - All paramilitary and police forces come under the command of the EC. As a result, they are free of machinations from the home ministry which is usually responsible for their control. - Candidates make multiple reports during the campaign process and the EC does strict accounting for all this. It bans liquor sales and drafts banks to report any overt cash transactions. I don't know where you're getting your information from, when you were born, why you think the EC is sycophantic, or how that would even help - but the EC's role in the Indian elections is more like a safe maker trying to hoodwink the safe cracker - it will never be perfect, but given its many constitutionally guaranteed rights, it is agile enough to try and stay a few steps ahead of the curve. It is this very flexibility via which the ECI can even think about opening something like this up to a challenge.
    - srean 10y ago
      > I don't know where you're getting your information from, Using eyes and ears and just being aware of my surroundings. Trivial counterpoint. Pickup a state, say West Bengal. Count the number of egregious incidents of violence and intimidation reported by competing political parties and the media, including live videos. What action has the EC taken and what has that changed. > - The EC assumes complete control over all civil services, including transferring people in response to independent assessment and complaints. ... and then does what ? You are being completely naïve in the open bedfellows relationship with IAS and politicians. There are exceptions, but rare.
fellellor 10y ago
You are obviously a troll with zero intention to contribute to any meaningful conversation. Voter impersonation is not that easy with all ID card requirements. If it were we would have more difficult problems than a simple choice between paper ballot boxes an electronic voting machines and this conversation would be moot.
- srean 10y ago
  > Voter impersonation is not that easy with all ID card requirements. I would make a far stronger claim, its actual non-trivially hard. But when the executive branch has been bought out by the incumbent govt (which is frequently the rule rather than the exception in many states) those technological and procedural hurdles dont amount to much. As I said it is not a technological problem. > You are obviously a troll with zero intention to contribute to any meaningful conversation I wish it was that. Sadly these are things that deeply affect human lives and their potential, and I dont know what to do about it