8 ms·

I don't know if I can answer people's questions but I was born Parsi (I.e. Zoroastrians from India). AMA

by yazaddaruvala 10y ago

ocschwar 10y ago
Do you see your community's future existence as secure?
- yazaddaruvala 10y ago
  lol, I definitely see a sound future existence for rhetorical questions. In all seriousness: If you're describing Parsis, then likely no. People are not allowed to convert to being Parsi. It isn't a religion, it is a sub-culture. Legally in India, you're only Parsi if you were born to of a Parsi man. Dumb patriarcal rule, which dwindles the Parsi populations. If you're describing Zorastians, I couldn't say. It seems unlikely to die, its lasted too long, I'm sure it'll stick if only for nostalgia. The liklyhood that in the future children will be born Zorastrian is improbable. However, to be Zorastrian you don't technically have to acknowledge it. To the best of my knowledge, if you act Zorastrian, you are Zorastrian. And the most important mantra among Zorastrians is "Good thoughts, lead to good words, lead to good deeds". Additionally, we are too accepting for our own good. Zorastrians to the best of my knowledge have no official restrictions. You're still Zorastrian if you gamble, if you drink, if you eat whatever. We are accepting of our culture's "death", accepting of other religions[1], accepting (even encouraged) to be critically minded. Sadly, while being critically minded, ends up creating a positively disproportionate number of Parsis becoming "successful"[0], it also means most of us are also critically minded towards religion (i.e. "is there even a god?"). I can expand on this last statement a bit more (in regards to Parsis, not Iranis - I don't know too much about Iranian Zorastrian cultural perspectives). I myself, and what I see of my friends, and their parents, we tend to respect god as if we believe, however, we don't act like we do. I myself, consider myself a poly-ideologist. And love to irritate my religious friends (of all faiths) with "I must believe in god. I pray when shit gets tough, but I don't irritate god by thinking about it the rest of the time." I myself, have come to realize that my Zorastrian/Parsi beliefs are foundational, but they do not provide the framework. I had to personally build my personal framework, originating from that foundation. Which it seems to me most others from my community do. Maybe this was intentional? Maybe this is just how the oldest religion alive had to evolve to scale/continue itself. Finally, it's unclear what you mean by "your community's future existence", so I'll leave you with this. Long story short, I don't think these "brands" (i.e. Parsi, maybe even Zorastrian) will last. However, the mentality/ideology is infectious. Any child brought up around it adopts it. A lot of adults I've spoken to who are "apathetic" or "atheist" have actually reached similar/identical conclusions. Hopefully, that answers your question. [0] If you use successful people per capita as a metric, Parsis are likely on top of the list. As such I view a causal relationship with intelligence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity; "Persian's conquer Babylon ... a year later the Jews are allowed to leave [or do as they please]"
  - ocschwar 10y ago
    > If you're describing Parsis, then likely no. I'm also from a community that combines a religion with a tribal identity, so I left the question purposely vague since I have no idea which of these carries how much importance to Parsis. [0] Yes, the guests of King Koroush.
gooddeeds 10y ago
What do you think of Iranian zoroastrian? what about Iranians in general? - I'm not a card carrying zoroastrian per se but I have affinity for the religion and I hope one day it will have a big resurgence It was the religion of my ancestors after all
- cazum 10y ago
  I find the sentiment behind this comment difficult to understand. On one hand i think you're saying you don't believe in Zoroastrianism enough to call yourself a devout, but on the other you want a big resurgence of people that do? What about Zoroastrianism makes you wish for a comeback?
  - gooddeeds 10y ago
    Hard to describe. You can chalk it up to "resentment towards historical events". It saddens me when I think about the forceful change of religion/culture in my country. As for why I'd like for it to make a come back 1. I believe in the core tenets of the religion itself 2. I see it as some kind of "justice being served/ restoration of ancestorial way of life"
    - vowelless 10y ago
      The absolutely massive transformation of Iran practically overnight in the 600 to 800 AD era continues to surprise me, despite being from around that region. Can you recommend books / documentaries from the perspective of the Iranian people about how and why this change happened? I want to get more insight into why such a large and proud empire changed so radically in such a short period of time. I am largely familiar with the Arab / Muslim telling of the story.
      - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
        The story goes: Islamic tribes began conquering the Persian empire. As they went, the population was given two options: 1. Convert. 2. Die. 3. (Option which wasn't provided) Run away. FWIW, if you want more info about why your parent commenter seeks a "comeback" is likely related to how I call Zorastrian ideas "infectious" in another of my posts on this thread. Check it out. Let me know what you think.
redsummer 10y ago
Are these people really Zoroastrians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Converts_to_Zoroastrianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Converts_to_Zoroastri... My eyebrows rose when I heard Julia Roberts was a Hindu, and perhaps these people are the same. In love with exoticism, but not authentic.
- ZeroFries 10y ago
  How do you know she's not authentic?
  - redsummer 10y ago
    I don't know - but being a Hindu seems as much an ethnic thing as a religious thing. So I get the same feeling as reading about Rachel Dolezal.
    - geofft 10y ago
      There are a number of differences, though. Roberts isn't trying to claim that she was a cradle Hindu (Dolezal found a black man to claim to be her father, with the implication of being her birth father). Roberts isn't taking any leadership positions in Hindu organizations or trying to speak publicly as a Hindu; she's been quoted as specifically refusing to speak about religion. Other Hindus, one would assume, helped her in the process of deciding to convert. She isn't trying to claim any identity other than a person who happened to convert to Hinduism and is practicing Hinduism privately. Even if trans-race were a reasonable thing (and the reasons that it's unreasonable are far too complicated to get into, and far too off-topic), Dolezal's actions and Roberts' actions would still be very different. Even if you lived in a world where trans-race were somehow legitimate, I'd imagine lots of people would still be uncomfortable about Dolezal's approach to it. But religious conversion, in general, has long been accepted, and Roberts' conversion is extremely normal as conversions go. It is true that occasionally religious identities that have ethnic identities get complicated; as a random example, the Eastern Orthodox churches in the US have some trouble with this, since the communities overlap heavily with ethnic (Greek, Russian, etc.) identity, and there are occasionally some awkward spots when converts to Orthodoxy start gaining leadership roles in the church (which is reasonable!) and then trying to mold it into the vision of the church that they were looking for before their conversion. But I wouldn't doubt the seriousness of these converts' conversions, even so, and regardless, Julia Roberts is doing nothing of the sort.
bogomipz 10y ago
I have heard that most Parsis are rather well to do in Indian society, is this accurate?
- yazaddaruvala 10y ago
  I said in a different response to this thread: > If you use successful people per capita as a metric, Parsis are likely on top of the list. This is primarily due to their entrepreneurial spirit, and treating the British occupation of India as a ladder to success, rather than a insurrection towards their way of life (like most Indians at the time). Additionally, I've never heard of Paris ever living on the street. They have predominantly been a part of the Indian middle class, even prior to rise of the Indian middle class. I can't speak for all Parsis but today they are mostly upper-middle class. There is a strong culture of critical thinking, education[0], independence[2] and nepotism[3]. Every Parsi I know has at least graduated from highschool (that is a lie, my grandfather didn't but was successful regardless - he was an exception). Additionally, most Parsis I know have the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree, and a large number have the equivalent of a Masters. Moreover, a double digit percentage of the Parsi youth today get a Bachelor's/Master's degree from London/Singapore/US/etc and then move home. Of my ~20-30 male Parsi friends (i.e. my age group) in India, about 9-10 of them are pilots. And believe it or not, Indian pilots are paid in similar orders of magnitude to what AMZN/MSFT pay software engineers in India. Others are CAs, or in advertising, there are a few who chose to work on oil rigs, some as divers. Of my 20 or so female Parsi friends, a few interior decorators, a few in advertising, a few air-hostesses, a couple CAs. All jobs which pay relatively well in India. [0] Every single one of us speaks "British" English. We all study exclusively at English medium schools, even tho we are in India[1]. Only in intimate situations (i.e. only with each other, ~25% of the time) we speak Gujarathi/English with Gujarathi slang. [1] FWIW, most Indians who studied in Indian English medium schools have better English comprehension and written skills than the average American/Canadian. Myself not included, I moved to Canada for highshcool/university forgive my poor grammar/spellings :P [2] Kids understand they need to fend for themselves, even though they have generous safety nets and support structures, like living at home indefinitely. It is completely normal for women, even after marriage to work, and heavily encouraged before marriage. [3] Nepotism which exists on this gradient: It is strongest for immediate family, continues strong for family, grows less and less important the more distant a family member you are, however, even a Parsi you've never met gets (if they are qualified) a job before an equally (or slightly more qualified) "other person".
doug1001 10y ago
The British Archive article (OP), says that the holy book of the Zoroastrians was written sometime around 224-651. Of course, the New Testament contains unambiguous and extensive references to Zoroastrianism so clearly it must be far older than the origin given for the Avesta. so clearly Zoroastrianism is much older than the origin of the Avesta. Is there a generally accepted date of origin for the former?

I don't know if I can answer people's questions but I was born Parsi (I.e. Zoroastrians from India). AMA

ocschwar 10y ago

Do you see your community's future existence as secure?

yazaddaruvala 10y ago
lol, I definitely see a sound future existence for rhetorical questions. In all seriousness: If you're describing Parsis, then likely no. People are not allowed to convert to being Parsi. It isn't a religion, it is a sub-culture. Legally in India, you're only Parsi if you were born to of a Parsi man. Dumb patriarcal rule, which dwindles the Parsi populations. If you're describing Zorastians, I couldn't say. It seems unlikely to die, its lasted too long, I'm sure it'll stick if only for nostalgia. The liklyhood that in the future children will be born Zorastrian is improbable. However, to be Zorastrian you don't technically have to acknowledge it. To the best of my knowledge, if you act Zorastrian, you are Zorastrian. And the most important mantra among Zorastrians is "Good thoughts, lead to good words, lead to good deeds". Additionally, we are too accepting for our own good. Zorastrians to the best of my knowledge have no official restrictions. You're still Zorastrian if you gamble, if you drink, if you eat whatever. We are accepting of our culture's "death", accepting of other religions[1], accepting (even encouraged) to be critically minded. Sadly, while being critically minded, ends up creating a positively disproportionate number of Parsis becoming "successful"[0], it also means most of us are also critically minded towards religion (i.e. "is there even a god?"). I can expand on this last statement a bit more (in regards to Parsis, not Iranis - I don't know too much about Iranian Zorastrian cultural perspectives). I myself, and what I see of my friends, and their parents, we tend to respect god as if we believe, however, we don't act like we do. I myself, consider myself a poly-ideologist. And love to irritate my religious friends (of all faiths) with "I must believe in god. I pray when shit gets tough, but I don't irritate god by thinking about it the rest of the time." I myself, have come to realize that my Zorastrian/Parsi beliefs are foundational, but they do not provide the framework. I had to personally build my personal framework, originating from that foundation. Which it seems to me most others from my community do. Maybe this was intentional? Maybe this is just how the oldest religion alive had to evolve to scale/continue itself. Finally, it's unclear what you mean by "your community's future existence", so I'll leave you with this. Long story short, I don't think these "brands" (i.e. Parsi, maybe even Zorastrian) will last. However, the mentality/ideology is infectious. Any child brought up around it adopts it. A lot of adults I've spoken to who are "apathetic" or "atheist" have actually reached similar/identical conclusions. Hopefully, that answers your question. [0] If you use successful people per capita as a metric, Parsis are likely on top of the list. As such I view a causal relationship with intelligence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity; "Persian's conquer Babylon ... a year later the Jews are allowed to leave [or do as they please]"
- ocschwar 10y ago
  > If you're describing Parsis, then likely no. I'm also from a community that combines a religion with a tribal identity, so I left the question purposely vague since I have no idea which of these carries how much importance to Parsis. [0] Yes, the guests of King Koroush.

gooddeeds 10y ago

What do you think of Iranian zoroastrian? what about Iranians in general? - I'm not a card carrying zoroastrian per se but I have affinity for the religion and I hope one day it will have a big resurgence It was the religion of my ancestors after all

cazum 10y ago
I find the sentiment behind this comment difficult to understand. On one hand i think you're saying you don't believe in Zoroastrianism enough to call yourself a devout, but on the other you want a big resurgence of people that do? What about Zoroastrianism makes you wish for a comeback?
- gooddeeds 10y ago
  Hard to describe. You can chalk it up to "resentment towards historical events". It saddens me when I think about the forceful change of religion/culture in my country. As for why I'd like for it to make a come back 1. I believe in the core tenets of the religion itself 2. I see it as some kind of "justice being served/ restoration of ancestorial way of life"
  - vowelless 10y ago
    The absolutely massive transformation of Iran practically overnight in the 600 to 800 AD era continues to surprise me, despite being from around that region. Can you recommend books / documentaries from the perspective of the Iranian people about how and why this change happened? I want to get more insight into why such a large and proud empire changed so radically in such a short period of time. I am largely familiar with the Arab / Muslim telling of the story.
    - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
      The story goes: Islamic tribes began conquering the Persian empire. As they went, the population was given two options: 1. Convert. 2. Die. 3. (Option which wasn't provided) Run away. FWIW, if you want more info about why your parent commenter seeks a "comeback" is likely related to how I call Zorastrian ideas "infectious" in another of my posts on this thread. Check it out. Let me know what you think.

redsummer 10y ago

Are these people really Zoroastrians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Converts_to_Zoroastrianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Converts_to_Zoroastri... My eyebrows rose when I heard Julia Roberts was a Hindu, and perhaps these people are the same. In love with exoticism, but not authentic.

ZeroFries 10y ago
How do you know she's not authentic?
- redsummer 10y ago
  I don't know - but being a Hindu seems as much an ethnic thing as a religious thing. So I get the same feeling as reading about Rachel Dolezal.
  - geofft 10y ago
    There are a number of differences, though. Roberts isn't trying to claim that she was a cradle Hindu (Dolezal found a black man to claim to be her father, with the implication of being her birth father). Roberts isn't taking any leadership positions in Hindu organizations or trying to speak publicly as a Hindu; she's been quoted as specifically refusing to speak about religion. Other Hindus, one would assume, helped her in the process of deciding to convert. She isn't trying to claim any identity other than a person who happened to convert to Hinduism and is practicing Hinduism privately. Even if trans-race were a reasonable thing (and the reasons that it's unreasonable are far too complicated to get into, and far too off-topic), Dolezal's actions and Roberts' actions would still be very different. Even if you lived in a world where trans-race were somehow legitimate, I'd imagine lots of people would still be uncomfortable about Dolezal's approach to it. But religious conversion, in general, has long been accepted, and Roberts' conversion is extremely normal as conversions go. It is true that occasionally religious identities that have ethnic identities get complicated; as a random example, the Eastern Orthodox churches in the US have some trouble with this, since the communities overlap heavily with ethnic (Greek, Russian, etc.) identity, and there are occasionally some awkward spots when converts to Orthodoxy start gaining leadership roles in the church (which is reasonable!) and then trying to mold it into the vision of the church that they were looking for before their conversion. But I wouldn't doubt the seriousness of these converts' conversions, even so, and regardless, Julia Roberts is doing nothing of the sort.

bogomipz 10y ago

I have heard that most Parsis are rather well to do in Indian society, is this accurate?

yazaddaruvala 10y ago
I said in a different response to this thread: > If you use successful people per capita as a metric, Parsis are likely on top of the list. This is primarily due to their entrepreneurial spirit, and treating the British occupation of India as a ladder to success, rather than a insurrection towards their way of life (like most Indians at the time). Additionally, I've never heard of Paris ever living on the street. They have predominantly been a part of the Indian middle class, even prior to rise of the Indian middle class. I can't speak for all Parsis but today they are mostly upper-middle class. There is a strong culture of critical thinking, education[0], independence[2] and nepotism[3]. Every Parsi I know has at least graduated from highschool (that is a lie, my grandfather didn't but was successful regardless - he was an exception). Additionally, most Parsis I know have the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree, and a large number have the equivalent of a Masters. Moreover, a double digit percentage of the Parsi youth today get a Bachelor's/Master's degree from London/Singapore/US/etc and then move home. Of my ~20-30 male Parsi friends (i.e. my age group) in India, about 9-10 of them are pilots. And believe it or not, Indian pilots are paid in similar orders of magnitude to what AMZN/MSFT pay software engineers in India. Others are CAs, or in advertising, there are a few who chose to work on oil rigs, some as divers. Of my 20 or so female Parsi friends, a few interior decorators, a few in advertising, a few air-hostesses, a couple CAs. All jobs which pay relatively well in India. [0] Every single one of us speaks "British" English. We all study exclusively at English medium schools, even tho we are in India[1]. Only in intimate situations (i.e. only with each other, ~25% of the time) we speak Gujarathi/English with Gujarathi slang. [1] FWIW, most Indians who studied in Indian English medium schools have better English comprehension and written skills than the average American/Canadian. Myself not included, I moved to Canada for highshcool/university forgive my poor grammar/spellings :P [2] Kids understand they need to fend for themselves, even though they have generous safety nets and support structures, like living at home indefinitely. It is completely normal for women, even after marriage to work, and heavily encouraged before marriage. [3] Nepotism which exists on this gradient: It is strongest for immediate family, continues strong for family, grows less and less important the more distant a family member you are, however, even a Parsi you've never met gets (if they are qualified) a job before an equally (or slightly more qualified) "other person".

doug1001 10y ago

The British Archive article (OP), says that the holy book of the Zoroastrians was written sometime around 224-651. Of course, the New Testament contains unambiguous and extensive references to Zoroastrianism so clearly it must be far older than the origin given for the Avesta. so clearly Zoroastrianism is much older than the origin of the Avesta. Is there a generally accepted date of origin for the former?