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A lot of people are taking either stance: that a person's beliefs squarely should or should not affect their involvement in the project. However - the third st

A lot of people are taking either stance: that a person's beliefs squarely should or should not affect their involvement in the project. However - the third stance is that one needs to assess the material effect their beliefs may have on their day-to-day involvement in that project. In an industry with serious, systemic issues with gender balance, is it not reasonable to suggest a person promoting "Gorean philosophy" might execute poor judgement in the context of work with female collaborators?

gooseus 10y ago
But who does the assessing? What measure do we use to determine which beliefs will create which affects? Is a Gorean belief system more or less likely than an Abrahamic belief system to execute poor judgement with regards to female collaborators? I think the problem with many of these approaches is this notion that we can predict ahead of time. I would agree with your third approach if you just changed the tense of the sentence: > However - the third stance is that one needs to assess the material effect their beliefs _have had_ on their day-to-day involvement in that project. In an industry with serious, systemic issues with gender balance, is it not reasonable to suggest a person promoting "Gorean philosophy" _might have executed_ poor judgement in the context of work with female collaborators? We can't assume behavior from stated beliefs, but past behavior and beliefs may factor into a case where wrong-doing has occurred. If I'm a satanist, that doesn't mean I'm going to sacrifice babies... but if you find me connected to a bunch of baby-sacrificing, then you better believe my stated Satanic beliefs will factor into the "motive" part of my prosecution. Not only is this the "innocent till proven guilty" ethos applied generally, it's also going to be far more efficient to judge people case-by-case on observed actions/offenses than by trying to extrapolate potential actions from the subjective interpretations of their words.
- lucideer 10y ago
  You're right, and I probably should've worded it that way (I can no longer edit). I was using the term "might" in a suggestive, rather than speculative, way.
camus2 10y ago
> the third stance is that one needs to assess the material effect their beliefs may have on their day-to-day involvement in that project I know I'm "straw-maning" a little but why would it be any different for strongly religious people in Jewish, Christian, or Muslim community? Do you think they shouldn't put in charge of anything because their book might say bad things about gays or women, or non believers? Why this belief (Gor) and not the mainstream ones? Was he "fired" because he acted on his beliefs? inside the Drupal community? toward another member of the Drupal community? Or merely because he had an opinion he never disclosed to a collaborator and someone who obviously didn't like him, went to great length to find dirt or an excuse to kick him out of the Drupal community?
atom-morgan 10y ago
With that logic it would seem reasonable to assume someone of any religion might execute poor judgement. There's always something to disagree with in any religion.
rhizome 10y ago
Aside from his private wedding speech thing, how was he "promoting Gorean philosophy" in the context of his Drupal work?

gooseus 10y ago

But who does the assessing? What measure do we use to determine which beliefs will create which affects? Is a Gorean belief system more or less likely than an Abrahamic belief system to execute poor judgement with regards to female collaborators? I think the problem with many of these approaches is this notion that we can predict ahead of time. I would agree with your third approach if you just changed the tense of the sentence: > However - the third stance is that one needs to assess the material effect their beliefs _have had_ on their day-to-day involvement in that project. In an industry with serious, systemic issues with gender balance, is it not reasonable to suggest a person promoting "Gorean philosophy" _might have executed_ poor judgement in the context of work with female collaborators? We can't assume behavior from stated beliefs, but past behavior and beliefs may factor into a case where wrong-doing has occurred. If I'm a satanist, that doesn't mean I'm going to sacrifice babies... but if you find me connected to a bunch of baby-sacrificing, then you better believe my stated Satanic beliefs will factor into the "motive" part of my prosecution. Not only is this the "innocent till proven guilty" ethos applied generally, it's also going to be far more efficient to judge people case-by-case on observed actions/offenses than by trying to extrapolate potential actions from the subjective interpretations of their words.

lucideer 10y ago
You're right, and I probably should've worded it that way (I can no longer edit). I was using the term "might" in a suggestive, rather than speculative, way.

camus2 10y ago

> the third stance is that one needs to assess the material effect their beliefs may have on their day-to-day involvement in that project I know I'm "straw-maning" a little but why would it be any different for strongly religious people in Jewish, Christian, or Muslim community? Do you think they shouldn't put in charge of anything because their book might say bad things about gays or women, or non believers? Why this belief (Gor) and not the mainstream ones? Was he "fired" because he acted on his beliefs? inside the Drupal community? toward another member of the Drupal community? Or merely because he had an opinion he never disclosed to a collaborator and someone who obviously didn't like him, went to great length to find dirt or an excuse to kick him out of the Drupal community?

atom-morgan 10y ago

With that logic it would seem reasonable to assume someone of any religion might execute poor judgement. There's always something to disagree with in any religion.

rhizome 10y ago

Aside from his private wedding speech thing, how was he "promoting Gorean philosophy" in the context of his Drupal work?