3 ms·

> That depends on the situation but is ultimately un-important It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery

> That depends on the situation but is ultimately un-important It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work. Economic rules is not something that one can decide whether it applies or not. It's like telling that mathematical axioms don't apply in prison - sure, you can make people believe that 2 + 2 = 5 but this is nothing more than just rejecting the reality.

jacquesm 10y ago
In ordinary paid work both sides have consideration and freedom. In this case they don't so you can't compare it to 'ordinary work', it isn't. That leaves 'forced labor' as the only other option if you feel that letting people starve to death is a viable alternative (as you did in your earlier comment). The rest of your comment is not applicable.
- scoobydoo123 10y ago
  >if you feel that letting people starve to death is a viable alternative (as you did in your earlier comment) isn't it how this works in principle for folks that are not imprisoned? (And no, I don't think this a viable alternative, although - nice job what you did here - well played).
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > isn't it how this works in principle for folks that are not imprisoned? No, it isn't that's when you go on welfare. > (And no, I don't think this a viable alternative, although - nice job what you did here - well played). I didn't 'play', you basically made a bunch of statements that are un-supportable.
    - narrowrail 10y ago
      Just so you are aware, individual states have the right to prevent forced labor. For example, CO prevented forced labor in its constitution in the last election by a voter initiative.
jsmthrowaway 10y ago
> It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work. "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. And if you don't go you are put in solitary, instead of just being fired. That means you don't see any other people. Ever. If they really don't like you they can put you on the loaf, too. Look that up. And that "opportunity" for "ordinary paid work" only exists in prison: you also aren't handling jail, where the Thirteenth doesn't apply because the inmate has not yet been convicted. So now everybody in jail starves under your final solution, before they can be convicted by their peers, all in the name of economic purity. I have to say, as a former inmate, watching ostensibly well-off people who've never seen the inside of a drunk tank talk about "reality" like this just bugs me. It's just such a lack of perspective, which is fine, but there's also a lack of awareness that it's there and it's dehumanizing to see people speak about inmates like this. You're arguing basic economics and applying it to the incarcerated human condition as if inmates are a line item of cattle in Excel. (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.)
- scoobydoo123 10y ago
  > "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. This is why I'm saying that this work should be paid with fair rates. I think you've made a lot of false assumptions about myself, about who I am and about my "perspective" and "awareness". Everyone has to work to live and I'm really surprised that expecting this from inmates can be perceived as dehumanising. > (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.) With all due respect to your past experience, bad things happen to people outside of prison too, believe me - I'm in touch with reality.
- scoobydoo123 10y ago
  > "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. This is why I'm saying that this work should be paid with fair rates. I think you've made a lot of false assumptions about myself, about who I am and about my "perspective" and "awareness". Everyone has to work to live and I'm really surprised that expecting this from inmates can be perceived as dehumanising. > (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.) With all due respect to your past experience, bad things happen to people outside of prison too, believe me - I'm in touch with reality.

jacquesm 10y ago

In ordinary paid work both sides have consideration and freedom. In this case they don't so you can't compare it to 'ordinary work', it isn't. That leaves 'forced labor' as the only other option if you feel that letting people starve to death is a viable alternative (as you did in your earlier comment). The rest of your comment is not applicable.

scoobydoo123 10y ago
>if you feel that letting people starve to death is a viable alternative (as you did in your earlier comment) isn't it how this works in principle for folks that are not imprisoned? (And no, I don't think this a viable alternative, although - nice job what you did here - well played).
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > isn't it how this works in principle for folks that are not imprisoned? No, it isn't that's when you go on welfare. > (And no, I don't think this a viable alternative, although - nice job what you did here - well played). I didn't 'play', you basically made a bunch of statements that are un-supportable.
  - narrowrail 10y ago
    Just so you are aware, individual states have the right to prevent forced labor. For example, CO prevented forced labor in its constitution in the last election by a voter initiative.

jsmthrowaway 10y ago

> It actually is very important because this is exactly what distinguishes between labour slavery and ordinary paid work. "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. And if you don't go you are put in solitary, instead of just being fired. That means you don't see any other people. Ever. If they really don't like you they can put you on the loaf, too. Look that up. And that "opportunity" for "ordinary paid work" only exists in prison: you also aren't handling jail, where the Thirteenth doesn't apply because the inmate has not yet been convicted. So now everybody in jail starves under your final solution, before they can be convicted by their peers, all in the name of economic purity. I have to say, as a former inmate, watching ostensibly well-off people who've never seen the inside of a drunk tank talk about "reality" like this just bugs me. It's just such a lack of perspective, which is fine, but there's also a lack of awareness that it's there and it's dehumanizing to see people speak about inmates like this. You're arguing basic economics and applying it to the incarcerated human condition as if inmates are a line item of cattle in Excel. (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.)

scoobydoo123 10y ago
> "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. This is why I'm saying that this work should be paid with fair rates. I think you've made a lot of false assumptions about myself, about who I am and about my "perspective" and "awareness". Everyone has to work to live and I'm really surprised that expecting this from inmates can be perceived as dehumanising. > (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.) With all due respect to your past experience, bad things happen to people outside of prison too, believe me - I'm in touch with reality.
scoobydoo123 10y ago
> "Ordinary paid work" that pays less than a dollar an hour. This is why I'm saying that this work should be paid with fair rates. I think you've made a lot of false assumptions about myself, about who I am and about my "perspective" and "awareness". Everyone has to work to live and I'm really surprised that expecting this from inmates can be perceived as dehumanising. > (Ask me what comes out of the hole when someone gets repeatedly stabbed with a sharpened toothbrush and what color it is. Hint: not red. That's reality.) With all due respect to your past experience, bad things happen to people outside of prison too, believe me - I'm in touch with reality.