7 ms·

Oh god please no. I would really prefer that we stop the experimentation and just go back to implementing the standard desktop. Linux got its success by being a

by Asooka 10y ago

Oh god please no. I would really prefer that we stop the experimentation and just go back to implementing the standard desktop. Linux got its success by being a Unix clone, down to copying the syscall numbers. We should mimic that on desktop by just copying Windows, rather than chasing unproven weird ideas. OSX succeeds not because it's quirky, but because it is backed by a company with massive resources. And even OSX is much closer to Windows than Gnome is. Please stop innovation for innovation's sake and just make Windows 98 again.

towndrunk 10y ago
I wouldn't mind Windows 10 UI on Linux.
dleslie 10y ago
Hell, I'm happy with MATE; Unity, Gnome3, KDE, et al just fail to meet that combination of usable features, low footprint, and staying out of the way.
criddell 10y ago
> OSX succeeds not because it's quirky, but because it is backed by a company with massive resources. If deep pockets was all it took to make an OS succeed, Windows Phone wouldn't be dead. On the desktop, OSX, Windows, and most Linux variants are all good enough. What matters is application support. For my job, 50% of the applications I use run on Linux, 75% run on OSX (natively), and 100% work on Windows. Can you guess which OS I use at work? Thanks to Valve, Linux has a real shot at picking up some steam in the gaming space. Without Adobe and Microsoft, it probably won't go anywhere on corporate or consumer desktops.
- MegaDeKay 10y ago
  "Thanks to Valve, Linux has a real shot at picking up some steam..." Nicely done :-)
- zamalek 10y ago
  > 100% work on Windows Make that 110% if you include Visual Studio. The degree of polish that Visual Studio has just isn't available anywhere else. At some point early this year I was considering Linux+VSCode. VS2017, with F5-to-Docker debug, launched and everything else looks like a giant pain in the ass once again. The Azure integration is anticompetitive but, wow, is it also so much better than the alternative. XCode is a hilarious joke that Apple is playing on developers. Linux IDEs, while much better than XCode, would have been competitive in 2003 (unless you use Java/IntelliJ exclusively). It's no wonder that Windows is the only platform where developers shy away from text editors - it's the only platform where the alternatives to text editors don't absolutely suck. It's really not that text editors are better than IDEs - an good IDE and a good text editor are complementary, not competitive. Where I'm going with this is that a good IDE begets a quality application. That 100% doesn't arise from the ether. Alongside your game argument comes another indicator of this: Windows has a very mature graphical debugger[1] (having been growing it since DX9) where, so far as I have read, both competing operating systems lack this functionality entirely. Balmer might have looked like a fool with his "developers, developers, developers" dance. The thing is that he was completely correct - instead of mocking his monkey dancing, Apple and Linux should have been paying attention to the people that he was praising. If Ubuntu want to compete in this space the developer experience must be fixed. [1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh315751.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh315751.aspx
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    The degree of polish that Visual Studio has just isn't available anywhere else. I like Windows more than before but people saying VS is fantastic are starting to annoy me. My VS crashed 3 times today (!). This comes on top of almost not having any refactoring support unless you buy ReSharper. I was really excited to get to try .Net three months ago. Now I'm really looking forward to go back to Java and Netbeans (even if I will miss some things.) It's no wonder that Windows is the only platform where developers shy away from text editors This developer love Netbeans on KDE.
    - zamalek 10y ago
      ReSharper? I typically run lightweight in terms of extensions and I've heard woes from others that don't.
stinos 10y ago
I always had a dual feeling about this. In one way, yes, at one point I also found myself tweaking KDE until it was even closer to Windows than it is by default. That works ok for me, and I am still unsure whether it is because I'm used to it or because it is just good or a combination. At the same time though I always found it amusing and interesting to try completely different WMs. But in the end I noticed I'm always going back to some standards in the end. And spent (wasted?) some time configuring/being annoyed/... because the WM got in the way or was lacking features rather than being helpful. So, like another commenter says: wouldn't mind a complete Windows UI clone (especially window/multiple monitor/keyboard behavior) on Linux.
jug 10y ago
This sounds essentially like the thinking behind Cinnamon (and MATE) and well, Linux Mint got pretty popular.
vidarh 10y ago
You may want it copying Windows, but I for one would switch away from whatever distro tries copying Windows, because I detest it. And that's why Linux will never stop the experimentation: Lots of the people actually writing the code wants to experiment and don't want to copy Windows. You will never get unity (pardon the pun) out of a group whose only unifying characteristic is that we don't want to use Windows or OS X. > Please stop innovation for innovation's sake and just make Windows 98 again. That's been tried. Remember Lindows? It even tried for Windows compatibility via Wine.
- josefx 10y ago
  > You may want it copying Windows, but I for one would switch away from whatever distro tries copying Windows, because I detest it. On the other hand I switch away from every distro or at least desktop that does "change" for the sake of "change". I prefer a stable system with optional changes to a mess that breaks functionality with every other update. Sadly some of the programs I use were written for GNOME or at least with GTK, so I am still affected every time GNOME is "improved".
  - vidarh 10y ago
    That's fine, but it doesn't imply copying Windows - if anything, copying Windows would mean more "change for the sake of change" than sticking with something conservative like Mate (continuation of Gnome 2), Cinnamon (more conservative fork of Gnome 3) or e.g. LXDE. Linux have plenty of options whatever your preferred rate of change. If you want to avoid change, see if the GNOME/GTK apps you use are available in forks for Mate or Cinnamon - if they are, chances are they'll change far less.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  >You may want it copying Windows, but I for one would switch away from whatever distro tries copying Windows, because I detest it. That's fine, but Linux is never going to achieve any significant marketshare (and thus get support from hardware and software makers) as long as it tries to standardize on weird UIs. Having some weird options for those who want to mess with them is great, just don't make them the standard. That's the problem with Linux: for some stupid reason, the distros have mostly standardized on Gnome3, which is a resource hog and horrible to use, and not an easy transition for a non-technical Windows user. If they adopted KDE instead, Linux would probably get a lot more popularity.
rbanffy 10y ago
> by just copying Windows Hell no!
reitanqild 10y ago
We should mimic that on desktop by just copying Windows, rather than chasing unproven weird ideas. Disagree strongly. I'd much rather want Microsoft to release a polished supported KDE 5 or Gnome 3 than the other way around. The thing that attracted me to free software was first the price tag (esp when I was a student) and later speed and usability.
- herbst 10y ago
  Gnome on Windows would so much made my day when i still worked on Windows. I tried everything that promised anything like that, but essentially you are stuck with Windows in every corner.
boomboomsubban 10y ago
ReactOS is an open source clone of Windows, designed to be binary compatible with Windows.

by Asooka 10y ago

towndrunk 10y ago

I wouldn't mind Windows 10 UI on Linux.

dleslie 10y ago

Hell, I'm happy with MATE; Unity, Gnome3, KDE, et al just fail to meet that combination of usable features, low footprint, and staying out of the way.

criddell 10y ago

> OSX succeeds not because it's quirky, but because it is backed by a company with massive resources. If deep pockets was all it took to make an OS succeed, Windows Phone wouldn't be dead. On the desktop, OSX, Windows, and most Linux variants are all good enough. What matters is application support. For my job, 50% of the applications I use run on Linux, 75% run on OSX (natively), and 100% work on Windows. Can you guess which OS I use at work? Thanks to Valve, Linux has a real shot at picking up some steam in the gaming space. Without Adobe and Microsoft, it probably won't go anywhere on corporate or consumer desktops.

MegaDeKay 10y ago
"Thanks to Valve, Linux has a real shot at picking up some steam..." Nicely done :-)
zamalek 10y ago
> 100% work on Windows Make that 110% if you include Visual Studio. The degree of polish that Visual Studio has just isn't available anywhere else. At some point early this year I was considering Linux+VSCode. VS2017, with F5-to-Docker debug, launched and everything else looks like a giant pain in the ass once again. The Azure integration is anticompetitive but, wow, is it also so much better than the alternative. XCode is a hilarious joke that Apple is playing on developers. Linux IDEs, while much better than XCode, would have been competitive in 2003 (unless you use Java/IntelliJ exclusively). It's no wonder that Windows is the only platform where developers shy away from text editors - it's the only platform where the alternatives to text editors don't absolutely suck. It's really not that text editors are better than IDEs - an good IDE and a good text editor are complementary, not competitive. Where I'm going with this is that a good IDE begets a quality application. That 100% doesn't arise from the ether. Alongside your game argument comes another indicator of this: Windows has a very mature graphical debugger[1] (having been growing it since DX9) where, so far as I have read, both competing operating systems lack this functionality entirely. Balmer might have looked like a fool with his "developers, developers, developers" dance. The thing is that he was completely correct - instead of mocking his monkey dancing, Apple and Linux should have been paying attention to the people that he was praising. If Ubuntu want to compete in this space the developer experience must be fixed. [1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh315751.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh315751.aspx
- reitanqild 10y ago
  The degree of polish that Visual Studio has just isn't available anywhere else. I like Windows more than before but people saying VS is fantastic are starting to annoy me. My VS crashed 3 times today (!). This comes on top of almost not having any refactoring support unless you buy ReSharper. I was really excited to get to try .Net three months ago. Now I'm really looking forward to go back to Java and Netbeans (even if I will miss some things.) It's no wonder that Windows is the only platform where developers shy away from text editors This developer love Netbeans on KDE.
  - zamalek 10y ago
    ReSharper? I typically run lightweight in terms of extensions and I've heard woes from others that don't.

stinos 10y ago

I always had a dual feeling about this. In one way, yes, at one point I also found myself tweaking KDE until it was even closer to Windows than it is by default. That works ok for me, and I am still unsure whether it is because I'm used to it or because it is just good or a combination. At the same time though I always found it amusing and interesting to try completely different WMs. But in the end I noticed I'm always going back to some standards in the end. And spent (wasted?) some time configuring/being annoyed/... because the WM got in the way or was lacking features rather than being helpful. So, like another commenter says: wouldn't mind a complete Windows UI clone (especially window/multiple monitor/keyboard behavior) on Linux.

jug 10y ago

This sounds essentially like the thinking behind Cinnamon (and MATE) and well, Linux Mint got pretty popular.

vidarh 10y ago

You may want it copying Windows, but I for one would switch away from whatever distro tries copying Windows, because I detest it. And that's why Linux will never stop the experimentation: Lots of the people actually writing the code wants to experiment and don't want to copy Windows. You will never get unity (pardon the pun) out of a group whose only unifying characteristic is that we don't want to use Windows or OS X. > Please stop innovation for innovation's sake and just make Windows 98 again. That's been tried. Remember Lindows? It even tried for Windows compatibility via Wine.

josefx 10y ago
> You may want it copying Windows, but I for one would switch away from whatever distro tries copying Windows, because I detest it. On the other hand I switch away from every distro or at least desktop that does "change" for the sake of "change". I prefer a stable system with optional changes to a mess that breaks functionality with every other update. Sadly some of the programs I use were written for GNOME or at least with GTK, so I am still affected every time GNOME is "improved".
- vidarh 10y ago
  That's fine, but it doesn't imply copying Windows - if anything, copying Windows would mean more "change for the sake of change" than sticking with something conservative like Mate (continuation of Gnome 2), Cinnamon (more conservative fork of Gnome 3) or e.g. LXDE. Linux have plenty of options whatever your preferred rate of change. If you want to avoid change, see if the GNOME/GTK apps you use are available in forks for Mate or Cinnamon - if they are, chances are they'll change far less.
Arizhel 10y ago
>You may want it copying Windows, but I for one would switch away from whatever distro tries copying Windows, because I detest it. That's fine, but Linux is never going to achieve any significant marketshare (and thus get support from hardware and software makers) as long as it tries to standardize on weird UIs. Having some weird options for those who want to mess with them is great, just don't make them the standard. That's the problem with Linux: for some stupid reason, the distros have mostly standardized on Gnome3, which is a resource hog and horrible to use, and not an easy transition for a non-technical Windows user. If they adopted KDE instead, Linux would probably get a lot more popularity.

rbanffy 10y ago

> by just copying Windows Hell no!

reitanqild 10y ago

We should mimic that on desktop by just copying Windows, rather than chasing unproven weird ideas. Disagree strongly. I'd much rather want Microsoft to release a polished supported KDE 5 or Gnome 3 than the other way around. The thing that attracted me to free software was first the price tag (esp when I was a student) and later speed and usability.

herbst 10y ago
Gnome on Windows would so much made my day when i still worked on Windows. I tried everything that promised anything like that, but essentially you are stuck with Windows in every corner.

boomboomsubban 10y ago

ReactOS is an open source clone of Windows, designed to be binary compatible with Windows.