4 ms·

It's very telling and somewhat disappointing that the Deutsche Post (not a traditional car maker) can get a fleet of electric cars up and running while traditio

by Asdfbla 10y ago

It's very telling and somewhat disappointing that the Deutsche Post (not a traditional car maker) can get a fleet of electric cars up and running while traditional German automotive industry is still delaying as long as possible, showing off futuristic (and ugly) design studies instead of putting electric cars on the road.

kuschku 10y ago
All the German carmakers have the tech to produce them, that’s not the problem. But there’s no demand for an electric car that costs 5 times as much as an equivalent gasoline car (VW up! is 7'000€, e-up! is 35'000€)
- adrianN 10y ago
  Apparently the Post has a sufficiently big demand, as do other European delivery agencies.
usrusr 10y ago
But it's made by the German automotive industry, just not designed and assembled by any of the existing front-end brands. The underlying component supplier network (and workforce skill pool) is the same. Tapping into that network might be difficult if you are some nameless, shaky startup, but if you are DHL they will be very willing to talk to you.
- germanier 10y ago
  Understanding this is key to getting the German automative industry (or even the whole German economy). Your shiny new car model needs cylindrical fasteners (just as all do)? There is a company with 350 employees that does only that and can deliver just on time. Same with any other little component in a car.
  - 205guy 10y ago
    I came to make a similar comment. Look at what Tesla had to do to manufacture in California (partner with old factory owner, get tons of federal loans), and they were lucky there was an old car factory in the Bay Area, it would never be sited there nowadays due to real-estate value. Maybe it would've been easier for them in Michigan, not sure. Or look at the Nissan Leaf, US models built in Tennesssee I believe, but had to be done by an established brand who retooled one of their factories. By comparison, Germany seems to be the Shenzen of tooling and manufacture, enabling a start-up to build a niche electric vehicle such as this.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jpm_sd 10y ago
Similarly, can you imagine the USPS ever doing something like this?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 10y ago
  The USPS wants one vehicle so it needs a much longer range. The Grumman LLV was specifically designed for the United States Postal Service with Grumman winning the contract for production... Approximately 140,000 LLVs are in the USPS delivery fleet.[6][7] A number were also sold to Canada, Mexico, and several other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV On September 22, 2016, the United States Postal Service awarded the NGDV Prototype Contract to six selected suppliers: AM General, Karsan, Mahindra, Oshkosh, Utilimaster, and VT Hackney. Half of the prototypes will feature hybrid and new technologies, including alternative fuel capabilities. The prototypes will represent a variety of vehicle sizes and drive configurations, in addition to advanced powertrains and a range of hybrid technologies.[16]
  - hackermailman 10y ago
    The old LLVs were finally retired in Canada a few years ago due to spontaneously catching fire[1] but lasted 28yrs of heavy service. [1]http://postalnews.com/blog/category/llv-fires/ http://postalnews.com/blog/category/llv-fires/
  - photojosh 10y ago
    That's the kind of thinking that leads to the JSF/F-35. :)
    - Retric 10y ago
      Sometimes, but economies of scale are moreover noticeable when you make 100,000+ of something than 200+. I would say go electric, but with N optional and easily replaceable battery packs. So, routs that need 50 mile range get that and you can scale to 100, 150 etc, or add an extra pack when range starts to drop etc. This also lets you keep a motor pool of being repaired without needing an extra of each model.
rhodin 10y ago
StreetScooter started as a research project at the RWTH Aachen University, spun out as a startup, and was later acquired by Deutsche Post[1]. Hoping Germany can produce more such startups! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

by Asdfbla 10y ago

kuschku 10y ago

All the German carmakers have the tech to produce them, that’s not the problem. But there’s no demand for an electric car that costs 5 times as much as an equivalent gasoline car (VW up! is 7'000€, e-up! is 35'000€)

adrianN 10y ago
Apparently the Post has a sufficiently big demand, as do other European delivery agencies.

usrusr 10y ago

But it's made by the German automotive industry, just not designed and assembled by any of the existing front-end brands. The underlying component supplier network (and workforce skill pool) is the same. Tapping into that network might be difficult if you are some nameless, shaky startup, but if you are DHL they will be very willing to talk to you.

germanier 10y ago
Understanding this is key to getting the German automative industry (or even the whole German economy). Your shiny new car model needs cylindrical fasteners (just as all do)? There is a company with 350 employees that does only that and can deliver just on time. Same with any other little component in a car.
- 205guy 10y ago
  I came to make a similar comment. Look at what Tesla had to do to manufacture in California (partner with old factory owner, get tons of federal loans), and they were lucky there was an old car factory in the Bay Area, it would never be sited there nowadays due to real-estate value. Maybe it would've been easier for them in Michigan, not sure. Or look at the Nissan Leaf, US models built in Tennesssee I believe, but had to be done by an established brand who retooled one of their factories. By comparison, Germany seems to be the Shenzen of tooling and manufacture, enabling a start-up to build a niche electric vehicle such as this.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jpm_sd 10y ago

Similarly, can you imagine the USPS ever doing something like this?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Retric 10y ago
The USPS wants one vehicle so it needs a much longer range. The Grumman LLV was specifically designed for the United States Postal Service with Grumman winning the contract for production... Approximately 140,000 LLVs are in the USPS delivery fleet.[6][7] A number were also sold to Canada, Mexico, and several other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV On September 22, 2016, the United States Postal Service awarded the NGDV Prototype Contract to six selected suppliers: AM General, Karsan, Mahindra, Oshkosh, Utilimaster, and VT Hackney. Half of the prototypes will feature hybrid and new technologies, including alternative fuel capabilities. The prototypes will represent a variety of vehicle sizes and drive configurations, in addition to advanced powertrains and a range of hybrid technologies.[16]
- hackermailman 10y ago
  The old LLVs were finally retired in Canada a few years ago due to spontaneously catching fire[1] but lasted 28yrs of heavy service. [1]http://postalnews.com/blog/category/llv-fires/ http://postalnews.com/blog/category/llv-fires/
- photojosh 10y ago
  That's the kind of thinking that leads to the JSF/F-35. :)
  - Retric 10y ago
    Sometimes, but economies of scale are moreover noticeable when you make 100,000+ of something than 200+. I would say go electric, but with N optional and easily replaceable battery packs. So, routs that need 50 mile range get that and you can scale to 100, 150 etc, or add an extra pack when range starts to drop etc. This also lets you keep a motor pool of being repaired without needing an extra of each model.

rhodin 10y ago

StreetScooter started as a research project at the RWTH Aachen University, spun out as a startup, and was later acquired by Deutsche Post[1]. Hoping Germany can produce more such startups! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter