9 ms·

Apple Loses Top Laptop Rating

85 points by Corrado 10y ago

yellow_viper 10y ago
Been using Apple since I was 10 (First computer was a PowerPC). Have owned most iPhones and all around been an Apple fanboy. The latest macbook was the last straw, a 40% increase in price is not acceptable. I switched to a Nexus (and loving it). I bought a macbook for Uni (2015 model - The loss of ports and addition of a battery draining touchbar doesn't appeal) but only due to the fact that I needed something that would perform well and last all day. (Gaming laptops only last 2-5hrs). Unless they unveil some version with ports reinstated and a huge battery (16+ hrs) I don't see myself ever going back.
- mark_l_watson 10y ago
  I have grown to like the USB-C port on my new MacBook. I bought the matching LG ultra-def monitor that acts as a charging station and a hub, providing 3 extra USB-C ports, one of which I just keep a dongle for USB 2. My only complaint is the high cost.
  - yellow_viper 10y ago
    Depends on your use. The only ports I don't use on my mac are the Mini dvi. I use both USBs daily, HDMI when at friends, and the SD card slot for loading pictures from clients - and don't want to carry adapters around with me. The loss of MagSafe is another big one. Kinda defeats the purpose having a nice sleek macbook only having to plug something like this into it http://cdn.bgr.com/2016/12/macbook-pro-2016-hyperdrive-all-in-one-adapter-kickstarter-2.jpg?quality=98&strip=all&strip=all http://cdn.bgr.com/2016/12/macbook-pro-2016-hyperdrive-all-i...
    - blktiger 10y ago
      Apple has always been early on technology changes like USB-C, in a couple years we'll look back on this like when the iMac dropped the floppy drive. USB-C is obviously better, it's just a matter of time before everything uses it.
      - subway 10y ago
        Apple has been anything but early on USB-C.
        blktiger 10y ago
        How many laptop had only USB-C before the MacBook in early 2015? The spec was only finalized in August 2014.
        snovv_crash 10y ago
        And then they released new laptops in late 2015 with no USB-C ports. And 2 iterations of phones.
      - yellow_viper 10y ago
        Doesn't really matter if it's better. TVs still use HDMI and most likely will for another 10+ yr. They're just reducing the functionality of the laptop.
threatofrain 10y ago
Is this a particularly prestigious publication or something? Otherwise it seems to be some random award.
- heavymark 10y ago
  No, it's not a prestigious publication or special as this article already was on HN previously, and discussions on how it's just meaningless non statically valid ratings from internal staff. Alas, many cling to any chance to sing the old song of Apple is doomed, it can't innovate, x wouldn't have happened if Steve was alive, how people are threatening to switch, etc. But with Apple's uncharacteristic Mac Pro announcement perhaps years of griping can eventually move the needle, so I suppose whatever works for people.
timemachiner 10y ago
I've used the new MBP since its release. It's fine. I have no issues with the battery and came to like the keyboard and screen. The anti-MBP threads in HN is tiring. How many threads have we had on this? How many threads will we have on this filled with the same kind comments? The current top comment is the same as the top comments in the previous threads. I almost think at this point people post these links and post anti-MBP comments for easy karma. I'd rather see HN discuss something else at this point. If you don't like the new MBP don't buy it. It's fine for my programming needs. Maybe not yours, but let's discuss something else at this point on HN.
- rusk 10y ago
  It's not that the new MBP isn't "fine" - it's just that the gap with competitors has closed a lot. People asking me which laptop to buy used always be a very simple answer ("Buy a Macbook"). They were head and shoulders better than anything else. But it's down to mere inches now and the additional drawbacks which I won't go into here since as you rightly say they've been covered ad nauseum - are far more glaring now than they would have been a few years ago.
  - timemachiner 10y ago
    That's Apples problem. Hopefully Apple gets the message that consumers want actual pro laptops. What I'm suggesting is let's discuss something more important on HN at this point.
    - rusk 10y ago
      Well with respect, you brought it up ...
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - Noseshine 10y ago
      Then why did you click to come to this discussion thread instead of ignoring it like you doubtlessly do for 90%+ of all topics that come up on HN? How about this: You don't upvote stories you don't like, and every person has (only) one vote to upvote what they do like to be seen and/or discussed. Incidentally, that's exactly how it already works... If you want to be the one with veto power there also is a way: You can create your own subreddit on reddit.
fumar 10y ago
I purchased an MacBook Pro with touchbar to replace my Surface Pro 3. I was tired of 4-5 hour battery life on the Surface. From high school to early career, I always stuck with Apple products until the switch to Surface a years back. It has been a tough transition to a non-touch screen. I understand the following statement doesn't have a logical foundation...I just hate staring at the touchbar. I don't like that its there, it is never useful. TouchID on a laptop is genius. USB C, I can get use to. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on that one, but I miss the magsafe connector. I like the bigger trackpad, great! I give the machine a solid 8/10. I would love if Apple released an iPad Pro + Macbook thing. Perhaps, I can never go back from a device with touch + pen + convertible to tablet device. I am attempting to live in harmony with the touchbar, but something feels just a tad of the mark with the new Pro.
- craigching 10y ago
  I have a Logitech keyboard for my iPad Pro and love it. I've always purchased a keyboard with my iPads, I couldn't live without one!
- secfirstmd 10y ago
  Me too would love the iPad pro + Macbook thing. I would bet decent money it's in the pipeline but they are squeezing profit from Macbook lines just because they can. Next up i reckon will be a touchscreen Macbook, which is well needed i reckon. Then what you describe.
  - antfarm 10y ago
    Apple made it clear in their roundtable discussion with selected journalists earlier this month that they don't have plans for a mac with a touchscreen. https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/05/apple-no-plans-for-touchscreen-or-arm-based-macs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/05/apple-no-plans-for-touc...
egwynn 10y ago
Previously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14079562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14079562
YellowCode 10y ago
If Razer can fit a GTX 1060 into a 14-inch chassis, why can't Apple? There's definitely a market of users who barely unplug their laptop while doing serious work/play, but want the option of portability. Getting a gaming/video-editing desktop forces a lifestyle change if I need to take my computer somewhere or relocate. Most places I go, I can usually find a plug if I'm doing serious work. Make a laptop as thick as the 2011 MBP with a real graphics card and the same renowned build quality please. Billions of dollars and no sense; squandered on accessory watches, dongles and pads, which barely qualify as computers for anyone in the power-user user-base and devs.
nkkollaw 10y ago
> The company's MacBooks are slim, powerful and well-built, but you'll need pile of money and a bagful of dongles. The company's support and warranty options are second to none. Mmm... So, the only reason why the MacBook Pro isn't first is the price? It doesn't make any sense. I bought the Late-2016 MacBook Pro (no touchbar, of course), and it's the best laptop I've ever used by a long shot. I wasn't happy to have to pay more than I used to (EUR 1490 vs. EUR 1199), but being a developer my machine is important, and with my hourly wage the expense is justified if I can be more productive. Thanks to the improved keyboard, I'm more productive as I can type faster and more enjoyably. I also used to have a MacBook Air, and I _love_ the HiDPI display. I don't have a bag full of dongles, so I have no idea what that's about. I attach the laptop to an external monitor, so I have 1 adapter that I keep plugged into the HDMI cable. It's got 2 USB3 ports, HDMI, and another USB-C port. I never bring it with me or use it besides for the monitor, though. I definitely would not want to replace my current laptop with a plastic Lenovo to save $300 (or whatever). I guess laptopmag.com is trying to ride the MacBook bitching wave one last time to get some visitors.
- martinni 10y ago
  The dongle comment comes from the new MacBook pro. Which is what these rating were based off of in the first place.
- snovv_crash 10y ago
  While you may be happy with not being able to plug in anything except USB-C while away from your desk, many are not. What happens if you go to a friend's house and they give you a flash drive with 20GB of photos to look at? What happens if you go travelling and need to get the pictures off your camera's SD card? What if you get given a flash drive with your client's work on it just before taking a flight? I don't doubt that for some people the dongle situation isn't a problem, and I'd be happy to accept these limitations from a cheap chromebook or a tablet. But the temerity to put out a laptop with these limitations (never mind the 16GB of RAM limit since 2011) while plastering on a "Pro" label astnoshes me; IMO it really dilutes the brand, and it seems I'm not the only one.
  - 10y ago
ValentineC 10y ago
One thing I don't understand: why are there no laptop manufacturers apart than Apple putting effort into making a better trackpad?
- gillette 10y ago
  Great question - this is actually one of the few reasons that I still recommend Macs at this point...
tzs 10y ago
Note that this is ranking the companies for their laptop business as a whole. It doesn't say anything about particular individual laptops made by those companies. It's not clear that these rankings say anything useful to someone whose goal is to choose a laptop to buy. It is quite possible that company X could handily outrank company Y, but for every segment of the laptop market that they both participate in Y's offering beats X's. It looks like the main reason Apple is #5 on their ranking is a low score in "value & selection". Apple gets 6 points out of a possible 15. The top 4 get 14, 15, 15, and 14. For that component of the score, they "[...] awarded points for offering a wide range of laptop types (budget, business, gaming, etc.) and for providing aggressive pricing". Only Microsoft got a lower "value & selection" score (5). Microsoft also got slammed on innovation because the only new model since the last evaluation was the Surface Book with Performance Base, and that only changed the base. They got nailed on design too for not offering more colors for the Surface book. Yet they call the Surface Pro 4 still "the best detachable on the market", and the Surface Book Pro with Performance Base "One of the most powerful 13-inch, non-gaming systems currently on the market", and say that Microsoft remains "a clear leader in 2-in-1 innovation".
intopieces 10y ago
Competition is good. I have no particular affinity for Apple being "#1" on a list -- I much prefer there being several companies constantly one-upping each other to make more laptops that suit my current and future needs.
ap46 10y ago
Stock up on the late-2015 MBP ya'll.

85 points by Corrado 10y ago

Been using Apple since I was 10 (First computer was a PowerPC). Have owned most iPhones and all around been an Apple fanboy. The latest macbook was the last straw, a 40% increase in price is not acceptable. I switched to a Nexus (and loving it). I bought a macbook for Uni (2015 model - The loss of ports and addition of a battery draining touchbar doesn't appeal) but only due to the fact that I needed something that would perform well and last all day. (Gaming laptops only last 2-5hrs). Unless they unveil some version with ports reinstated and a huge battery (16+ hrs) I don't see myself ever going back.

mark_l_watson 10y ago
I have grown to like the USB-C port on my new MacBook. I bought the matching LG ultra-def monitor that acts as a charging station and a hub, providing 3 extra USB-C ports, one of which I just keep a dongle for USB 2. My only complaint is the high cost.
- yellow_viper 10y ago
  Depends on your use. The only ports I don't use on my mac are the Mini dvi. I use both USBs daily, HDMI when at friends, and the SD card slot for loading pictures from clients - and don't want to carry adapters around with me. The loss of MagSafe is another big one. Kinda defeats the purpose having a nice sleek macbook only having to plug something like this into it http://cdn.bgr.com/2016/12/macbook-pro-2016-hyperdrive-all-in-one-adapter-kickstarter-2.jpg?quality=98&strip=all&strip=all http://cdn.bgr.com/2016/12/macbook-pro-2016-hyperdrive-all-i...
  - blktiger 10y ago
    Apple has always been early on technology changes like USB-C, in a couple years we'll look back on this like when the iMac dropped the floppy drive. USB-C is obviously better, it's just a matter of time before everything uses it.
    - subway 10y ago
      Apple has been anything but early on USB-C.
      - blktiger 10y ago
        How many laptop had only USB-C before the MacBook in early 2015? The spec was only finalized in August 2014.
        snovv_crash 10y ago
        And then they released new laptops in late 2015 with no USB-C ports. And 2 iterations of phones.
    - yellow_viper 10y ago
      Doesn't really matter if it's better. TVs still use HDMI and most likely will for another 10+ yr. They're just reducing the functionality of the laptop.

threatofrain 10y ago

Is this a particularly prestigious publication or something? Otherwise it seems to be some random award.

heavymark 10y ago
No, it's not a prestigious publication or special as this article already was on HN previously, and discussions on how it's just meaningless non statically valid ratings from internal staff. Alas, many cling to any chance to sing the old song of Apple is doomed, it can't innovate, x wouldn't have happened if Steve was alive, how people are threatening to switch, etc. But with Apple's uncharacteristic Mac Pro announcement perhaps years of griping can eventually move the needle, so I suppose whatever works for people.

timemachiner 10y ago

I've used the new MBP since its release. It's fine. I have no issues with the battery and came to like the keyboard and screen. The anti-MBP threads in HN is tiring. How many threads have we had on this? How many threads will we have on this filled with the same kind comments? The current top comment is the same as the top comments in the previous threads. I almost think at this point people post these links and post anti-MBP comments for easy karma. I'd rather see HN discuss something else at this point. If you don't like the new MBP don't buy it. It's fine for my programming needs. Maybe not yours, but let's discuss something else at this point on HN.

rusk 10y ago
It's not that the new MBP isn't "fine" - it's just that the gap with competitors has closed a lot. People asking me which laptop to buy used always be a very simple answer ("Buy a Macbook"). They were head and shoulders better than anything else. But it's down to mere inches now and the additional drawbacks which I won't go into here since as you rightly say they've been covered ad nauseum - are far more glaring now than they would have been a few years ago.
- timemachiner 10y ago
  That's Apples problem. Hopefully Apple gets the message that consumers want actual pro laptops. What I'm suggesting is let's discuss something more important on HN at this point.
  - rusk 10y ago
    Well with respect, you brought it up ...
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    Then why did you click to come to this discussion thread instead of ignoring it like you doubtlessly do for 90%+ of all topics that come up on HN? How about this: You don't upvote stories you don't like, and every person has (only) one vote to upvote what they do like to be seen and/or discussed. Incidentally, that's exactly how it already works... If you want to be the one with veto power there also is a way: You can create your own subreddit on reddit.

fumar 10y ago

I purchased an MacBook Pro with touchbar to replace my Surface Pro 3. I was tired of 4-5 hour battery life on the Surface. From high school to early career, I always stuck with Apple products until the switch to Surface a years back. It has been a tough transition to a non-touch screen. I understand the following statement doesn't have a logical foundation...I just hate staring at the touchbar. I don't like that its there, it is never useful. TouchID on a laptop is genius. USB C, I can get use to. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on that one, but I miss the magsafe connector. I like the bigger trackpad, great! I give the machine a solid 8/10. I would love if Apple released an iPad Pro + Macbook thing. Perhaps, I can never go back from a device with touch + pen + convertible to tablet device. I am attempting to live in harmony with the touchbar, but something feels just a tad of the mark with the new Pro.

craigching 10y ago
I have a Logitech keyboard for my iPad Pro and love it. I've always purchased a keyboard with my iPads, I couldn't live without one!
secfirstmd 10y ago
Me too would love the iPad pro + Macbook thing. I would bet decent money it's in the pipeline but they are squeezing profit from Macbook lines just because they can. Next up i reckon will be a touchscreen Macbook, which is well needed i reckon. Then what you describe.
- antfarm 10y ago
  Apple made it clear in their roundtable discussion with selected journalists earlier this month that they don't have plans for a mac with a touchscreen. https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/05/apple-no-plans-for-touchscreen-or-arm-based-macs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/05/apple-no-plans-for-touc...

egwynn 10y ago

Previously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14079562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14079562

YellowCode 10y ago

If Razer can fit a GTX 1060 into a 14-inch chassis, why can't Apple? There's definitely a market of users who barely unplug their laptop while doing serious work/play, but want the option of portability. Getting a gaming/video-editing desktop forces a lifestyle change if I need to take my computer somewhere or relocate. Most places I go, I can usually find a plug if I'm doing serious work. Make a laptop as thick as the 2011 MBP with a real graphics card and the same renowned build quality please. Billions of dollars and no sense; squandered on accessory watches, dongles and pads, which barely qualify as computers for anyone in the power-user user-base and devs.

nkkollaw 10y ago

> The company's MacBooks are slim, powerful and well-built, but you'll need pile of money and a bagful of dongles. The company's support and warranty options are second to none. Mmm... So, the only reason why the MacBook Pro isn't first is the price? It doesn't make any sense. I bought the Late-2016 MacBook Pro (no touchbar, of course), and it's the best laptop I've ever used by a long shot. I wasn't happy to have to pay more than I used to (EUR 1490 vs. EUR 1199), but being a developer my machine is important, and with my hourly wage the expense is justified if I can be more productive. Thanks to the improved keyboard, I'm more productive as I can type faster and more enjoyably. I also used to have a MacBook Air, and I _love_ the HiDPI display. I don't have a bag full of dongles, so I have no idea what that's about. I attach the laptop to an external monitor, so I have 1 adapter that I keep plugged into the HDMI cable. It's got 2 USB3 ports, HDMI, and another USB-C port. I never bring it with me or use it besides for the monitor, though. I definitely would not want to replace my current laptop with a plastic Lenovo to save $300 (or whatever). I guess laptopmag.com is trying to ride the MacBook bitching wave one last time to get some visitors.

martinni 10y ago
The dongle comment comes from the new MacBook pro. Which is what these rating were based off of in the first place.
snovv_crash 10y ago
While you may be happy with not being able to plug in anything except USB-C while away from your desk, many are not. What happens if you go to a friend's house and they give you a flash drive with 20GB of photos to look at? What happens if you go travelling and need to get the pictures off your camera's SD card? What if you get given a flash drive with your client's work on it just before taking a flight? I don't doubt that for some people the dongle situation isn't a problem, and I'd be happy to accept these limitations from a cheap chromebook or a tablet. But the temerity to put out a laptop with these limitations (never mind the 16GB of RAM limit since 2011) while plastering on a "Pro" label astnoshes me; IMO it really dilutes the brand, and it seems I'm not the only one.
- 10y ago

ValentineC 10y ago

One thing I don't understand: why are there no laptop manufacturers apart than Apple putting effort into making a better trackpad?

gillette 10y ago
Great question - this is actually one of the few reasons that I still recommend Macs at this point...

tzs 10y ago

Note that this is ranking the companies for their laptop business as a whole. It doesn't say anything about particular individual laptops made by those companies. It's not clear that these rankings say anything useful to someone whose goal is to choose a laptop to buy. It is quite possible that company X could handily outrank company Y, but for every segment of the laptop market that they both participate in Y's offering beats X's. It looks like the main reason Apple is #5 on their ranking is a low score in "value & selection". Apple gets 6 points out of a possible 15. The top 4 get 14, 15, 15, and 14. For that component of the score, they "[...] awarded points for offering a wide range of laptop types (budget, business, gaming, etc.) and for providing aggressive pricing". Only Microsoft got a lower "value & selection" score (5). Microsoft also got slammed on innovation because the only new model since the last evaluation was the Surface Book with Performance Base, and that only changed the base. They got nailed on design too for not offering more colors for the Surface book. Yet they call the Surface Pro 4 still "the best detachable on the market", and the Surface Book Pro with Performance Base "One of the most powerful 13-inch, non-gaming systems currently on the market", and say that Microsoft remains "a clear leader in 2-in-1 innovation".

intopieces 10y ago

Competition is good. I have no particular affinity for Apple being "#1" on a list -- I much prefer there being several companies constantly one-upping each other to make more laptops that suit my current and future needs.

ap46 10y ago

Stock up on the late-2015 MBP ya'll.