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This misconception that the flight was "overbooked" has to die. The flight was NOT OVERBOOKED. It was sold out, but definitely not overbooked. The reason that

This misconception that the flight was "overbooked" has to die. The flight was NOT OVERBOOKED. It was sold out, but definitely not overbooked. The reason that United needed 4 seats is because they had a last-minute crew to fly to Louisville. And the law says that their own employees can NOT take precedence over paying passengers. EDIT: Since some asked for a citation for the latter: 14 CFR 250.2a: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a

rl3 10y ago
>And the law says that their own employees can NOT take precedence over paying passengers. Do you have a citation for this?
- jinfiesto 10y ago
  I also would like to see a citation for this. It's my understanding that deadheading crew members are considered must-rides and that this is an industry norm.
  - rl3 10y ago
    Likewise. A cursory search turns up a couple links.[0][1] It seems to involve the fact they had to deplane passengers who had already boarded, rather than merely deny them boarding. [0] http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/ http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-den... [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_rvideos_just_filled_with_united_related/dg3xvja/?context=3 https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_...
- sjg007 10y ago
  Yes, the news.
- 1024core 10y ago
  14 CFR 250.2a: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a
  - rl3 10y ago
    IANAL, but that specifically deals with denial of boarding, which isn't technically applicable to the incident in question. Moreover, it only applies in context of oversold flights, and the flight was not oversold. Assuming it does apply, there's no outright prohibition on denial of boarding to confirmed reserved space passengers. It merely says that the airline must ensure that the smallest practicable number of confirmed reserve space passengers are involuntarily denied boarding. The deadheading crew was likely using positive-space employee passes that had a higher seating priority than any ticketed passengers on the flight. According to the definition of "confirmed reserved space"[0], those employees may very well qualify as such. I could find no specific statement suggesting that employees are not considered passengers for the purposes of the definition, let alone deadheading employees that are not involved in the operation of that particular flight. There's even a section on boarding priority that's pretty vague and largely boils down to having a reasonable policy in place to deal with situations where insufficient volunteers come forward to take advantage of compensation.[1] [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=6c742050b195b869ca941aa09eb59560&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:II:Subchapter:A:Part:250:250.2a https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.3 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.3
- neutralid 10y ago
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united-ceo-employees-followed-procedures-flier-belligerent/100317166/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united... > United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said Tuesday that all 70 seats on United Express Flight 3411 were filled, but the plane was not overbooked as the airline previously reported.
kk_cz 10y ago
Thank you. I was wondering all this time why would they swap a passenger already sitting in place with another seemingly "similar" passenger (from their point of view). I have not read anything mentioning another United crew.

rl3 10y ago

>And the law says that their own employees can NOT take precedence over paying passengers. Do you have a citation for this?

jinfiesto 10y ago
I also would like to see a citation for this. It's my understanding that deadheading crew members are considered must-rides and that this is an industry norm.
- rl3 10y ago
  Likewise. A cursory search turns up a couple links.[0][1] It seems to involve the fact they had to deplane passengers who had already boarded, rather than merely deny them boarding. [0] http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/ http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-den... [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_rvideos_just_filled_with_united_related/dg3xvja/?context=3 https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_...
sjg007 10y ago
Yes, the news.
1024core 10y ago
14 CFR 250.2a: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.2a
- rl3 10y ago
  IANAL, but that specifically deals with denial of boarding, which isn't technically applicable to the incident in question. Moreover, it only applies in context of oversold flights, and the flight was not oversold. Assuming it does apply, there's no outright prohibition on denial of boarding to confirmed reserved space passengers. It merely says that the airline must ensure that the smallest practicable number of confirmed reserve space passengers are involuntarily denied boarding. The deadheading crew was likely using positive-space employee passes that had a higher seating priority than any ticketed passengers on the flight. According to the definition of "confirmed reserved space"[0], those employees may very well qualify as such. I could find no specific statement suggesting that employees are not considered passengers for the purposes of the definition, let alone deadheading employees that are not involved in the operation of that particular flight. There's even a section on boarding priority that's pretty vague and largely boils down to having a reasonable policy in place to deal with situations where insufficient volunteers come forward to take advantage of compensation.[1] [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=6c742050b195b869ca941aa09eb59560&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:II:Subchapter:A:Part:250:250.2a https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.3 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.3
neutralid 10y ago
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united-ceo-employees-followed-procedures-flier-belligerent/100317166/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united... > United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said Tuesday that all 70 seats on United Express Flight 3411 were filled, but the plane was not overbooked as the airline previously reported.

kk_cz 10y ago

Thank you. I was wondering all this time why would they swap a passenger already sitting in place with another seemingly "similar" passenger (from their point of view). I have not read anything mentioning another United crew.