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Agree 100%. Advertising is a zero sum game. If an advertiser's budget is $5, they will spend $5. They will spend $5 on as many dumb ads as they can get, and th

by exelius 10y ago

Agree 100%. Advertising is a zero sum game. If an advertiser's budget is $5, they will spend $5. They will spend $5 on as many dumb ads as they can get, and they will spend that $5 using very targeted means if available. There's a tremendous amount of effort expended in the ad industry with very little real effect than to direct ad dollars through that platform and maybe provide a temporary lift to response rates. But honestly, it's all garbage. The more prevalent advertising is, the more people ignore it. Especially targeted ads. Hell, the targeting algorithms aren't even all that good - even in 2017. I bought an electric razor the other day, and I have been getting ads for electric razors ever since. Why? I already bought one. I won't need another for at least a year. These algorithms are stupid and likely don't boost anything. Anyway, once a new generation of ad buyers comes on board, expect the bubble to pop. The fundamentals are garbage.

lmm 10y ago
Advertising is not remotely zero-sum, as your own electric razor example demonstrates. Better targeting is win-win-win - the advertiser doesn't want to advertise something you have no interest in buying, you don't want to see an ad for something you have no interest in buying, and the site doesn't want to be associated with irrelevant ads either.
- exelius 10y ago
  It is in relation to ad budgets. Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years; more adtech doesn't lead to better conversion -- it's just smoke and mirrors so as networks can justify rates without the return ("but wait, this new feature will boost your campaigns by 5%!") Also consider that the #1 advertising category (automobiles) are about to head off a cliff in the next decade... there's a reason Wall Street thinks Tesla (whose 10 year plans are almost certainly to stop selling cars to consumers and operate a ride sharing platform) is more valuable than Ford.
  - lmm 10y ago
    > It is in relation to ad budgets. Ad budgets are not fixed universal constants. If advertising becomes more effective then companies can and should spend more on it (and vice versa if it becomes less effective). > Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years The fact that the OP remembered their electric razor example suggests otherwise.
    - exelius 10y ago
      Ad budgets kinda are fixed. That's how large ad buyers operate -- a product has a certain marketing budget, and an expected lift for a campaign. If you get more than that lift, you get a bonus. Less, meh, it happens (more often than not actually). I only remembered the razor ad because my immediate thought was "wow what a terrible ad" (and I work in this stuff). Can't tell you what brand of razors it was for.
JohnJamesRambo 10y ago
I don't agree with your targeted ads assessment. My targeted ads are so right it is downright spooky. I swear I have only THOUGHT about buying some obscure item and then boom there it is right there in a sidebar ad. Honestly I don't even mind, I'd rather look at ads for things I want, rather than things I have no interest in.
jasonkostempski 10y ago
Even if you hadn't bought one yet, would you ever choose a specific product based on an ad? I wouldn't. Best thing an ad can do to me is remind me I need something in a category, then I'll go around internet comparing products and grab the one that looks best, especially with a product like an electric razor. Companies should be investing in making good products so that when someone remembers they need something, their product will have the most positive reviews and most reasonable price.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  I hate advertising. However, I think a glib dismissal like this one underrates the power of ads a lot, and for me it's important to not underestimate my adversary. Sure, when I research virtually anything for myself, down to soy sauce or toothbrushes, I will literally go and seek out reviews and do some legwork. The real question is what happens when you are in a pinch. You're driving to your brother's house for dinner, and recall that you forgot to buy a toy for your nephew's birthday. Precisely there you'll be nabbed by a tendency to go for the "can't go wrong" choice, and the perception of the can't go wrong choice will have probably been created by advertising. So, don't sell it short. I agree with virtually everything; it's a worthless arms race and we'd be better off with companies focusing on quality. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone can just use willpower to fight it. It requires more, as legislation banning cigarette advertising has shown.
  - douche 10y ago
    If it's a nephew, and they are old enough to not asphyxiate themselves, then the obvious answer is always Lego. Little boys fucking love Legos.
    - anewday 10y ago
      Lego is great. But don't forget that this is also an idea that is shaped by advertising: why is Lego not for girls? Why do girls need pink blocks with figures that wear make up? Why this genderification?

by exelius 10y ago

lmm 10y ago

Advertising is not remotely zero-sum, as your own electric razor example demonstrates. Better targeting is win-win-win - the advertiser doesn't want to advertise something you have no interest in buying, you don't want to see an ad for something you have no interest in buying, and the site doesn't want to be associated with irrelevant ads either.

exelius 10y ago
It is in relation to ad budgets. Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years; more adtech doesn't lead to better conversion -- it's just smoke and mirrors so as networks can justify rates without the return ("but wait, this new feature will boost your campaigns by 5%!") Also consider that the #1 advertising category (automobiles) are about to head off a cliff in the next decade... there's a reason Wall Street thinks Tesla (whose 10 year plans are almost certainly to stop selling cars to consumers and operate a ride sharing platform) is more valuable than Ford.
- lmm 10y ago
  > It is in relation to ad budgets. Ad budgets are not fixed universal constants. If advertising becomes more effective then companies can and should spend more on it (and vice versa if it becomes less effective). > Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years The fact that the OP remembered their electric razor example suggests otherwise.
  - exelius 10y ago
    Ad budgets kinda are fixed. That's how large ad buyers operate -- a product has a certain marketing budget, and an expected lift for a campaign. If you get more than that lift, you get a bonus. Less, meh, it happens (more often than not actually). I only remembered the razor ad because my immediate thought was "wow what a terrible ad" (and I work in this stuff). Can't tell you what brand of razors it was for.

JohnJamesRambo 10y ago

I don't agree with your targeted ads assessment. My targeted ads are so right it is downright spooky. I swear I have only THOUGHT about buying some obscure item and then boom there it is right there in a sidebar ad. Honestly I don't even mind, I'd rather look at ads for things I want, rather than things I have no interest in.

jasonkostempski 10y ago

Even if you hadn't bought one yet, would you ever choose a specific product based on an ad? I wouldn't. Best thing an ad can do to me is remind me I need something in a category, then I'll go around internet comparing products and grab the one that looks best, especially with a product like an electric razor. Companies should be investing in making good products so that when someone remembers they need something, their product will have the most positive reviews and most reasonable price.

RodericDay 10y ago
I hate advertising. However, I think a glib dismissal like this one underrates the power of ads a lot, and for me it's important to not underestimate my adversary. Sure, when I research virtually anything for myself, down to soy sauce or toothbrushes, I will literally go and seek out reviews and do some legwork. The real question is what happens when you are in a pinch. You're driving to your brother's house for dinner, and recall that you forgot to buy a toy for your nephew's birthday. Precisely there you'll be nabbed by a tendency to go for the "can't go wrong" choice, and the perception of the can't go wrong choice will have probably been created by advertising. So, don't sell it short. I agree with virtually everything; it's a worthless arms race and we'd be better off with companies focusing on quality. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone can just use willpower to fight it. It requires more, as legislation banning cigarette advertising has shown.
- douche 10y ago
  If it's a nephew, and they are old enough to not asphyxiate themselves, then the obvious answer is always Lego. Little boys fucking love Legos.
  - anewday 10y ago
    Lego is great. But don't forget that this is also an idea that is shaped by advertising: why is Lego not for girls? Why do girls need pink blocks with figures that wear make up? Why this genderification?