4 ms·

Could it be competitive pressure in the US airline market? Margins are low, and have been since deregulation back in the '70s. And if people are consistently bu

Could it be competitive pressure in the US airline market? Margins are low, and have been since deregulation back in the '70s. And if people are consistently buying the cheapest tickets available, it's not too surprising service is nose-diving.

atonse 10y ago
I'm not so sure. I'd actually say the issue is not enough competition. Airlines have been consolidating a lot, and apart from the same 2-3 airlines that people generally seem to really like (Virgin & Alaska that now merged, JetBlue, and perhaps Southwest). Spirit is trying to create a no-frills airline. But the huge ones like United/Continental/Delta seem to be focusing all their innovative energy on how to creatively charge people more for fewer services.
tuna-piano 10y ago
I think its the US airline unions. Not all unions are good or bad, but it seems to me that when people are unionized they become more hostile towards their employer and eventually their customers. By their very existence, unions form an us vs them mentality that seems hard to break. Unions then need to reinforce their value to their members by always having a fight over something. I've had great flight attendants on US airlines, but some talk to customers in a way that I can't imagine even McDonald's employees getting away with. Why does United put up with surly flight attendants when McDonald's doesn't put up with surly staff? I think it's probably the unions. I also think customers don't care very much. Customers want cheap more than anything else. But I've flown many low cost carriers around the world, but no flight attendants are quite as nasty as some of the ones at US major carriers.
- coolgeek 10y ago
  It seems to me that you have the causation backward. Unions don't get established - especially in the last 20 years in the USA - unless working conditions and labor relations are already bad. There are literally enough books and scholarship on this to fill libraries.
nikdaheratik 10y ago
IMO, it's not 100% about competition. The airlines have been merging and forming partnerships to such an extent that they don't have much more direct competition than in the past. It is nearly all on what U.S. flyers want, and most of the non-frequent travelers want to save every penny they can. I think flyers may have finally reached the point where they can't cut service any further and may roll back on this a bit, but I doubt it will even come close to the service levels 10 years ago, let alone 40 years ago.

atonse 10y ago

I'm not so sure. I'd actually say the issue is not enough competition. Airlines have been consolidating a lot, and apart from the same 2-3 airlines that people generally seem to really like (Virgin & Alaska that now merged, JetBlue, and perhaps Southwest). Spirit is trying to create a no-frills airline. But the huge ones like United/Continental/Delta seem to be focusing all their innovative energy on how to creatively charge people more for fewer services.

tuna-piano 10y ago

I think its the US airline unions. Not all unions are good or bad, but it seems to me that when people are unionized they become more hostile towards their employer and eventually their customers. By their very existence, unions form an us vs them mentality that seems hard to break. Unions then need to reinforce their value to their members by always having a fight over something. I've had great flight attendants on US airlines, but some talk to customers in a way that I can't imagine even McDonald's employees getting away with. Why does United put up with surly flight attendants when McDonald's doesn't put up with surly staff? I think it's probably the unions. I also think customers don't care very much. Customers want cheap more than anything else. But I've flown many low cost carriers around the world, but no flight attendants are quite as nasty as some of the ones at US major carriers.

coolgeek 10y ago
It seems to me that you have the causation backward. Unions don't get established - especially in the last 20 years in the USA - unless working conditions and labor relations are already bad. There are literally enough books and scholarship on this to fill libraries.

nikdaheratik 10y ago

IMO, it's not 100% about competition. The airlines have been merging and forming partnerships to such an extent that they don't have much more direct competition than in the past. It is nearly all on what U.S. flyers want, and most of the non-frequent travelers want to save every penny they can. I think flyers may have finally reached the point where they can't cut service any further and may roll back on this a bit, but I doubt it will even come close to the service levels 10 years ago, let alone 40 years ago.