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Well we are moving to a web first world, and passing the terminal days of IRC. Trying to avoid web technologies isn't going to do anyone good. Best we can do is

by ktta 10y ago

Well we are moving to a web first world, and passing the terminal days of IRC. Trying to avoid web technologies isn't going to do anyone good. Best we can do is try to make them better are secure. Light weight clients can be written in C if you want. There's nothing that needs a web browser Here's the spec if you're interested[1]. There's also a weechat script if you want a command line client[2] [1]: https://matrix.org/docs/spec/ https://matrix.org/docs/spec/ [2]: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat.html https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/weechat.html

COMPUTERLOSER 10y ago
This comment made me throw up in my mouth a little.
nullc 10y ago
> Well we are moving to a web first world, Too bad much of the web stinks, with terrible responsiveness and usability and impose those results through bloated protocols and spaghetti architecture on anything that tries to interface with them. Multiple times on caltrain I've had people ask me how I'm on the internet as I have meetings on IRC without even noticing the connectivity has gone poor -- while their webchat stuff with multiple megabytes of ajaxy whatever won't even load.
- russdpale 10y ago
  Yeh in this vain, I'll add that I have very experienced colleagues who are so fed up with the current internet that they don't even fight net neutrality, and would rather another protocol rise in its place.
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- milesrout 10y ago
  There's nothing inherently 'web' or 'slow' or 'ajaxy' about Gzipped-JSON-over-HTTP2. I agree that the web is slow and crap a lot of the time, but chat using gzipped JSON over HTTP/2 would be just as fast as IRC as long as it's only sending the same level of info as IRC.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
    And yet it requires a hilariously complex protocol engine for HTTP for no purpose whatsoever.
    - milesrout 10y ago
      I don't agree at all. HTTP/1.1 and HTTP/2 are not especially simple protocols, but they're not that complicated. They aren't unnecessarily complicated, that's for sure. They have a set of features that necessitates a level of complexity, but it's better to do it in HTTP/2 once and only once than to repeat the same failures and reworks and added features and upgrades etc. etc. etc. to get the same level of features in a million different application protocols. Because otherwise you'll get to the same place as we were with HTTP/1.1: your nice 'simple' protocol will need to be replaced with one that can support multiple streams, etc.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
        > They aren't unnecessarily complicated They are, for what matrix intends to do.
        srssays 10y ago
        Programming sucked before HTTP+JSON became the lingua franca of machine communication. Being able to use any programming language with modern HTTP-based protocols is a real luxury. Before, you could only use a programming language if had a production-ready implementation of the protocol you wanted to speak. Otherwise you would spend the next weeks or months tediously writing one. This was so crippling that XML actually seemed like a good idea. Just imagine!
rsync 10y ago
"Well we are moving to a web first world, and passing the terminal days of IRC." That's too bad - mostly for the people that won't experience it or see it as viable. In 2017 I use (al)pine as my sole mailtool. It's many, many times faster and more efficient than web based email - and much more private and secure.

by ktta 10y ago

COMPUTERLOSER 10y ago

This comment made me throw up in my mouth a little.

nullc 10y ago

> Well we are moving to a web first world, Too bad much of the web stinks, with terrible responsiveness and usability and impose those results through bloated protocols and spaghetti architecture on anything that tries to interface with them. Multiple times on caltrain I've had people ask me how I'm on the internet as I have meetings on IRC without even noticing the connectivity has gone poor -- while their webchat stuff with multiple megabytes of ajaxy whatever won't even load.

russdpale 10y ago
Yeh in this vain, I'll add that I have very experienced colleagues who are so fed up with the current internet that they don't even fight net neutrality, and would rather another protocol rise in its place.
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milesrout 10y ago
There's nothing inherently 'web' or 'slow' or 'ajaxy' about Gzipped-JSON-over-HTTP2. I agree that the web is slow and crap a lot of the time, but chat using gzipped JSON over HTTP/2 would be just as fast as IRC as long as it's only sending the same level of info as IRC.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
  And yet it requires a hilariously complex protocol engine for HTTP for no purpose whatsoever.
  - milesrout 10y ago
    I don't agree at all. HTTP/1.1 and HTTP/2 are not especially simple protocols, but they're not that complicated. They aren't unnecessarily complicated, that's for sure. They have a set of features that necessitates a level of complexity, but it's better to do it in HTTP/2 once and only once than to repeat the same failures and reworks and added features and upgrades etc. etc. etc. to get the same level of features in a million different application protocols. Because otherwise you'll get to the same place as we were with HTTP/1.1: your nice 'simple' protocol will need to be replaced with one that can support multiple streams, etc.
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
      > They aren't unnecessarily complicated They are, for what matrix intends to do.
      - srssays 10y ago
        Programming sucked before HTTP+JSON became the lingua franca of machine communication. Being able to use any programming language with modern HTTP-based protocols is a real luxury. Before, you could only use a programming language if had a production-ready implementation of the protocol you wanted to speak. Otherwise you would spend the next weeks or months tediously writing one. This was so crippling that XML actually seemed like a good idea. Just imagine!

rsync 10y ago

"Well we are moving to a web first world, and passing the terminal days of IRC." That's too bad - mostly for the people that won't experience it or see it as viable. In 2017 I use (al)pine as my sole mailtool. It's many, many times faster and more efficient than web based email - and much more private and secure.