90 ms·

...Especially when about a fifth of said ethnicity is basically atheistic as well; quite a diverse bunch really, from ultra-orthodox 'Haredi' to a purely cultur

by M_Grey 9y ago

...Especially when about a fifth of said ethnicity is basically atheistic as well; quite a diverse bunch really, from ultra-orthodox 'Haredi' to a purely cultural identity.

jimmyk 9y ago
quite a diverse bunch really In comparison to who?
- M_Grey 9y ago
  Compared to the GP's "Jewish men..." notion, as though that were a useful group descriptor when it comes to behaviors. So, I suppose... compared to the often monolithic notions of Judaism that I so often encounter on and offline.
  - jimmyk 9y ago
    as though that were a useful group descriptor when it comes to behaviors. I found it to be useful. In combination with some other comments, it gave me a particular idea about what the article was about.
- gumby 9y ago
  strict grammarians, for instance, who would only have considered using "whom" in your sentence.
- gwbas1c 9y ago
  Christianity, where the definition effectively prohibits someone from being both an atheist and a christian.
  - jimmyk 9y ago
    So the claim then is that there is greater diversity in thought about whether or not a deity exists among an ethnic group than among a group for which membership is contingent on thinking a deity exists? I don't think that conveys very much information, except that there is not perfect uniformity among ethnic Jews on the issue.
  - M_Grey 9y ago
    To be fair, I'm not sure that Islam is too enthusiastic about atheists proclaiming for it either... to put it mildly.
    - mturmon 9y ago
      "There is no god but God" does seem to offer some wiggle room for atheists, but maybe that's an inadvertent loophole.
      - M_Grey 9y ago
        It might, but I think the current climate in much of the Islamic world, while not the crazed image many have, is actually pretty brutal to people within the religion who are seen as blasphemous. From what I know, and I have to admit that this isn't as much as I'd like, the process of proclaiming your faith pretty much involves accepting the existence of god, prophets, the "punishment of the grave," that kind of thing. My impression is that if you're seen to have lied about that, you're lucky just to be outcast. tl;dr It really doesn't pay to be seen as an "apostate" in Islam, at least in most places at this time.
        DanBC 9y ago
        > From what I know, and I have to admit that this isn't as much as I'd like In general when you're talking about a group of a billion people you should avoid generalisations, especially if you also need to say that you don't know what you're talking about.
        jimmyk 9y ago
        What did he say that was wrong? He didn't say all parts of the Islamic world are brutal to apostates, he just said much of the Islamic world is. And that's absolutely the case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Apostasy_in_the_recent_past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Apostasy_in_...
        M_Grey 9y ago
  - twobuy 9y ago
    Which definition is that, exactly?

by M_Grey 9y ago

...Especially when about a fifth of said ethnicity is basically atheistic as well; quite a diverse bunch really, from ultra-orthodox 'Haredi' to a purely cultural identity.

jimmyk 9y ago

quite a diverse bunch really In comparison to who?

M_Grey 9y ago
Compared to the GP's "Jewish men..." notion, as though that were a useful group descriptor when it comes to behaviors. So, I suppose... compared to the often monolithic notions of Judaism that I so often encounter on and offline.
- jimmyk 9y ago
  as though that were a useful group descriptor when it comes to behaviors. I found it to be useful. In combination with some other comments, it gave me a particular idea about what the article was about.
gumby 9y ago
strict grammarians, for instance, who would only have considered using "whom" in your sentence.
gwbas1c 9y ago
Christianity, where the definition effectively prohibits someone from being both an atheist and a christian.
- jimmyk 9y ago
  So the claim then is that there is greater diversity in thought about whether or not a deity exists among an ethnic group than among a group for which membership is contingent on thinking a deity exists? I don't think that conveys very much information, except that there is not perfect uniformity among ethnic Jews on the issue.
- M_Grey 9y ago
  To be fair, I'm not sure that Islam is too enthusiastic about atheists proclaiming for it either... to put it mildly.
  - mturmon 9y ago
    "There is no god but God" does seem to offer some wiggle room for atheists, but maybe that's an inadvertent loophole.
    - M_Grey 9y ago
      It might, but I think the current climate in much of the Islamic world, while not the crazed image many have, is actually pretty brutal to people within the religion who are seen as blasphemous. From what I know, and I have to admit that this isn't as much as I'd like, the process of proclaiming your faith pretty much involves accepting the existence of god, prophets, the "punishment of the grave," that kind of thing. My impression is that if you're seen to have lied about that, you're lucky just to be outcast. tl;dr It really doesn't pay to be seen as an "apostate" in Islam, at least in most places at this time.
      - DanBC 9y ago
        > From what I know, and I have to admit that this isn't as much as I'd like In general when you're talking about a group of a billion people you should avoid generalisations, especially if you also need to say that you don't know what you're talking about.
        jimmyk 9y ago
        What did he say that was wrong? He didn't say all parts of the Islamic world are brutal to apostates, he just said much of the Islamic world is. And that's absolutely the case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Apostasy_in_the_recent_past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Apostasy_in_...
        M_Grey 9y ago
- twobuy 9y ago
  Which definition is that, exactly?