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I think, only a special kind of "developers" is afraid of learning languages. A language is, after all, means to use the frameworks. If you are an experienced d

I think, only a special kind of "developers" is afraid of learning languages. A language is, after all, means to use the frameworks. If you are an experienced developer, moving from a language to a language is a matter of hours to days, depending on paradigm changes. Learning frameworks takes much longer, obviously, but with the wealth of information available out there these days (Stack Overflow, message boards, blogs, etc.), "hacking" on new frameworks is also quite easy. I think all these "massive cost" comments come from sheer ignorance. Those "devs" are frightened at the need to learn a new language and frameworks, overestimate the time required to learn those, look around them and only see likewise clueless "devs", frightened of changes, and extrapolate some comically high overestimation of cost and time, when in reality, a properly written software is much more accessible to join in and support than a web "app" with the contemporary "sexy" observer pattern nonsense splattered all over, coupled with a horrible, horrible dependency management system and a language/framework combo that requires multiple dependencies to perform the most trivial of array loop.

lerpa 10y ago
Spot on, I serioulsly don't understand people that are Java developers/front-end developers/technology X devs if you're not talking about you're currently working on, and instead treat that as their profession. Anyone would think it to be ridiculous if a carpenter told you he only works with saws because he is a saw carpenter and that for other kinds of work you should see the plane or sander carpenter. To me saying you're an [insert tech here] developer sounds the same...
- cr0sh 10y ago
  > Anyone would think it to be ridiculous if a carpenter told you he only works with saws because he is a saw carpenter and that for other kinds of work you should see the plane or sander carpenter. ...and yet there are specialties within like "framer" and "finisher", among others. Then you have interior workers like specialized custom cabinet makers, flooring specialist, drywallers, painters, etc. What I'm trying to say here is that even in "carpentry" for putting up a house, there are numerous specialties.
  - LeoNatan25 10y ago
    Specializing in one field is not bad, and to me, actually preferable. (I don't like jack of all trades types of developers.) When the mere notion of a language change or API/paradigm difference frightens you, you are a bad developer.
cr0sh 10y ago
> I think all these "massive cost" comments come from sheer ignorance. I can't speak for others, but for me, the "massive costs" isn't about having to learn another language or framework. It's instead the massive costs to my employer. It might even be a massive cost to me as a single developer. By developing a cross-platform app using a single set of easy-to-use tools, a large audience of users can be gained, that would otherwise be prohibitively expensive to support if native-only was the mantra. Instead, that application would have to be developed for only one, maybe two of the "major" platforms (and guess which platform it wouldn't be developed for - that would be the platform that I like most). Supporting and maintaining a single codebase for one platform is a monumental task for any company, let alone a single indie developer. Supporting and maintaining multiple codebases for multiple platforms can be debilitating for a company, let alone a single developer. I lived and played in those times; back in the "second gen" if you will of the microcomputer days - you had games and apps by different companies, and developers. In most cases, a game or app was only developed for one of those machines (usually the Apple IIe or the C=64, sometimes both - maybe an Atari too), but the other systems were all considered "second tier" by most developers. You might get a port of a game or app - but most times, you had to settle for something else, or buy a second system (ha! only if you had real money! I look back on the costs of those systems back then, and wonder how my parents ever managed it). There's a reason you see a lot less of that going on today; it isn't because devs are frightened of learning a new language or framework.
mi100hael 10y ago
The real irony is that OP's bio says > JavaScript Hacker at Slack meaning he works for a company that heavily leveraged an existing protocol, IRC, for which there are already a metric fuckton of native clients and libraries for every platform under the sun. Implementing their shitty web client was undoubtedly far more work than supporting a handful of native clients.
- deleted 10y ago
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lerpa 10y ago

Spot on, I serioulsly don't understand people that are Java developers/front-end developers/technology X devs if you're not talking about you're currently working on, and instead treat that as their profession. Anyone would think it to be ridiculous if a carpenter told you he only works with saws because he is a saw carpenter and that for other kinds of work you should see the plane or sander carpenter. To me saying you're an [insert tech here] developer sounds the same...

cr0sh 10y ago
> Anyone would think it to be ridiculous if a carpenter told you he only works with saws because he is a saw carpenter and that for other kinds of work you should see the plane or sander carpenter. ...and yet there are specialties within like "framer" and "finisher", among others. Then you have interior workers like specialized custom cabinet makers, flooring specialist, drywallers, painters, etc. What I'm trying to say here is that even in "carpentry" for putting up a house, there are numerous specialties.
- LeoNatan25 10y ago
  Specializing in one field is not bad, and to me, actually preferable. (I don't like jack of all trades types of developers.) When the mere notion of a language change or API/paradigm difference frightens you, you are a bad developer.

cr0sh 10y ago

> I think all these "massive cost" comments come from sheer ignorance. I can't speak for others, but for me, the "massive costs" isn't about having to learn another language or framework. It's instead the massive costs to my employer. It might even be a massive cost to me as a single developer. By developing a cross-platform app using a single set of easy-to-use tools, a large audience of users can be gained, that would otherwise be prohibitively expensive to support if native-only was the mantra. Instead, that application would have to be developed for only one, maybe two of the "major" platforms (and guess which platform it wouldn't be developed for - that would be the platform that I like most). Supporting and maintaining a single codebase for one platform is a monumental task for any company, let alone a single indie developer. Supporting and maintaining multiple codebases for multiple platforms can be debilitating for a company, let alone a single developer. I lived and played in those times; back in the "second gen" if you will of the microcomputer days - you had games and apps by different companies, and developers. In most cases, a game or app was only developed for one of those machines (usually the Apple IIe or the C=64, sometimes both - maybe an Atari too), but the other systems were all considered "second tier" by most developers. You might get a port of a game or app - but most times, you had to settle for something else, or buy a second system (ha! only if you had real money! I look back on the costs of those systems back then, and wonder how my parents ever managed it). There's a reason you see a lot less of that going on today; it isn't because devs are frightened of learning a new language or framework.

mi100hael 10y ago

The real irony is that OP's bio says > JavaScript Hacker at Slack meaning he works for a company that heavily leveraged an existing protocol, IRC, for which there are already a metric fuckton of native clients and libraries for every platform under the sun. Implementing their shitty web client was undoubtedly far more work than supporting a handful of native clients.

deleted 10y ago
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