12 ms·

> it is quite expensive (I have heard figures quoted like USD 5000). A bit of correction, I'm afraid. That's the cost for mid-shelf copy of Visual Studio 2009

by pnathan 10y ago

> it is quite expensive (I have heard figures quoted like USD 5000). A bit of correction, I'm afraid. That's the cost for mid-shelf copy of Visual Studio 2009 or so. It's not expensive at all for corporate purposes at any company I've worked at. Top-shelf Visual Studio was set for 10,000 for a long time (some checking of current costs suggests they've redone their pricing model). Expensive software for functioning companies, broadly, might be north of $100K. I can't speak to specifics, of course. It's quite a reorientation of what "expensive" means when you get involved, even a bit, in corporate purchasing and negotiation.

skissane 10y ago
Expensive for whom? Yes, for a large corporation USD 5,000 is easily affordable. But consider someone like myself. My job isn't focused on mainframes. I very rarely have had anything to do with them at work. Even though my employer could easily afford USD 5,000 to buy me a zPDT if there was a business case for doing so, they won't because there isn't really one–in the last five years, I've only once had to help a customer with mainframe integration issues, and we used a partner company with mainframe specialists to handle that engagement for us. However, I'd still like to learn the technology. I'm not sure I'd ever really want a job in it, but it fascinates me. But I'm not forking out thousands of dollars of my own money just so I can play with z/OS or z/VM. I think this is a problem with mainframes–even if someone is interested in the technology, it is very hard to learn about it unless your employer uses them (and in a large company, even if your employer does, your own job might still have little or nothing to do with them.) I would have thought IBM would be more keen on spreading knowledge of its own technologies around–it might actually make it easier to sell them to people–but it doesn't seem to be on IBM's radar. HP has the hobbyist program for OpenVMS, IBM could set up a similar program for mainframes (and IBM i too), but that has never happened. (I have heard some folks have tried to talk IBM into it, but they have never got anywhere.)
- rich335z 10y ago
  I totally agree that this is a problem for the mainframe, and I personally have tried to talk to IBM about this (and obviously haven't gotten anywhere). This is a huge missed opportunity for them. I regularly encounter folks that would like to learn the platform, even at a hobbyist level, but it's simply not accessible. FWIW... I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but IBM does host a Master the Mainframe contest each year. It provides free access to current z/OS systems for a while (few months, I think) and a project consisting of a series of challenges that guide you though learning the environment. IIRC... you must be an enrolled student to actually win the prizes, but anyone can sign up and perform the activities. One of the mods on /r/mainframe helps coordinate the contest if you're interested in learning more about it.

by pnathan 10y ago

skissane 10y ago

Expensive for whom? Yes, for a large corporation USD 5,000 is easily affordable. But consider someone like myself. My job isn't focused on mainframes. I very rarely have had anything to do with them at work. Even though my employer could easily afford USD 5,000 to buy me a zPDT if there was a business case for doing so, they won't because there isn't really one–in the last five years, I've only once had to help a customer with mainframe integration issues, and we used a partner company with mainframe specialists to handle that engagement for us. However, I'd still like to learn the technology. I'm not sure I'd ever really want a job in it, but it fascinates me. But I'm not forking out thousands of dollars of my own money just so I can play with z/OS or z/VM. I think this is a problem with mainframes–even if someone is interested in the technology, it is very hard to learn about it unless your employer uses them (and in a large company, even if your employer does, your own job might still have little or nothing to do with them.) I would have thought IBM would be more keen on spreading knowledge of its own technologies around–it might actually make it easier to sell them to people–but it doesn't seem to be on IBM's radar. HP has the hobbyist program for OpenVMS, IBM could set up a similar program for mainframes (and IBM i too), but that has never happened. (I have heard some folks have tried to talk IBM into it, but they have never got anywhere.)

rich335z 10y ago
I totally agree that this is a problem for the mainframe, and I personally have tried to talk to IBM about this (and obviously haven't gotten anywhere). This is a huge missed opportunity for them. I regularly encounter folks that would like to learn the platform, even at a hobbyist level, but it's simply not accessible. FWIW... I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but IBM does host a Master the Mainframe contest each year. It provides free access to current z/OS systems for a while (few months, I think) and a project consisting of a series of challenges that guide you though learning the environment. IIRC... you must be an enrolled student to actually win the prizes, but anyone can sign up and perform the activities. One of the mods on /r/mainframe helps coordinate the contest if you're interested in learning more about it.