3 ms·

I am not so sure that Brexit will have such a negative impact on Europe (and the world). I don't like the idea of these Super National organizations that polit

by socrates1998 10y ago

I am not so sure that Brexit will have such a negative impact on Europe (and the world). I don't like the idea of these Super National organizations that politically and economically integrate people so tightly. Really it's more about having our global society so tightly integrated and efficient. It means power (economic and political) goes to a select few people who get better and better at holding on to it. These crazy large banks that are so freaking tightly integrated are the worse example. A crisis at one bank triggers a global meltdown. We don't want a global meltdown so we bail out the banks, making them bigger and more powerful, exacerbating the problem. The more tightly controlled everything is makes our system so fragile. If the UK is more separated economically from Europe, if one or the other has an economic crisis the separation will lead to less drastic economic crisis.

voidz 10y ago
This is a well formed opinion. It shouldn't be downvoted; if people disagree there are better ways to express that than by downvoting it to fade out.
- rustynails 10y ago
  I apologise for going OT but you are right. This is a culture creeping into HN. Unpopular (but well thought) views are sometimes (too frequently) being down voted because people don't like it. This behaviour shuts down robust discussion and creates a conformist culture where "we are all individuals" (ala Monty Python). It is a fine line. Some postings cross the line, some are not value adding because they say nothing (eg. Me too). However, contrasting views (particularly well argued, potentially controversial views) are what really keeps HN so refreshing and thought provoking. It may be time for the owners to open up a discussion on use of votes again.
raverbashing 10y ago
Integration has ups and downs Ups: moving in a cohesive direction. Like CO2 emission reduction I think there's a balance between independence and integration needed at all levels (global/"continental"/national/regional/municipal) that has to be found
TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
You're confusing the financial system, which is global, with local politics, which is... local. Brexit will do absolutely nothing to rein in the banks. The US has no interest in taming Wall St, and at this point - although it's a very long shot - only an organisation the size of the EU has the leverage to steer banking in a less serving direction.
cogs 10y ago
Supra-national organizations help prevent war. The original purpose of the EU was to integrate the countries so tightly that war .. which happened twice on this continent not so long ago, would be unthinkable. Now - when the world is looking particularly unstable - is not the time to damage the organisations that keep us close. From an economic perspective, we live in a world of supra-national companies. To have leverage when negotiating with the likes of Amazon or Google the UK needs to work with other countries to avoid a race to the bottom on working conditions, taxes and so on. Its the same for trade. When we're not tied by EU legislation, the UK may keep going economically, by building a low tax imitation of the US with shorter holidays, poorer healthcare, welfare etc. But I think the world is a better place for having the EU as standard bearer for a fairer kinder society. Not perfect for sure, wasteful definitely (as is all government). But also holding hope that as human beings we're able to identify with a bigger picture than the tribal nationalisms we grew up with.

voidz 10y ago

This is a well formed opinion. It shouldn't be downvoted; if people disagree there are better ways to express that than by downvoting it to fade out.

rustynails 10y ago
I apologise for going OT but you are right. This is a culture creeping into HN. Unpopular (but well thought) views are sometimes (too frequently) being down voted because people don't like it. This behaviour shuts down robust discussion and creates a conformist culture where "we are all individuals" (ala Monty Python). It is a fine line. Some postings cross the line, some are not value adding because they say nothing (eg. Me too). However, contrasting views (particularly well argued, potentially controversial views) are what really keeps HN so refreshing and thought provoking. It may be time for the owners to open up a discussion on use of votes again.

raverbashing 10y ago

Integration has ups and downs Ups: moving in a cohesive direction. Like CO2 emission reduction I think there's a balance between independence and integration needed at all levels (global/"continental"/national/regional/municipal) that has to be found

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago

You're confusing the financial system, which is global, with local politics, which is... local. Brexit will do absolutely nothing to rein in the banks. The US has no interest in taming Wall St, and at this point - although it's a very long shot - only an organisation the size of the EU has the leverage to steer banking in a less serving direction.

cogs 10y ago

Supra-national organizations help prevent war. The original purpose of the EU was to integrate the countries so tightly that war .. which happened twice on this continent not so long ago, would be unthinkable. Now - when the world is looking particularly unstable - is not the time to damage the organisations that keep us close. From an economic perspective, we live in a world of supra-national companies. To have leverage when negotiating with the likes of Amazon or Google the UK needs to work with other countries to avoid a race to the bottom on working conditions, taxes and so on. Its the same for trade. When we're not tied by EU legislation, the UK may keep going economically, by building a low tax imitation of the US with shorter holidays, poorer healthcare, welfare etc. But I think the world is a better place for having the EU as standard bearer for a fairer kinder society. Not perfect for sure, wasteful definitely (as is all government). But also holding hope that as human beings we're able to identify with a bigger picture than the tribal nationalisms we grew up with.