4 ms·

I write Electron apps and call myself an engineer, because I am an engineer. Could you please explain why am I being hilarious?

pikzen 9y ago
Have you been trained as an engineer, in a country where "engineer" is a very specific thing and is held to higher expectations, including the possibility of having your title taken away by your peers if you do not respect your duty to, first and foremost, your users and/or society, like every country that takes the title of engineer seriously? If yes, what in earth makes you think writing Electron apps is a good idea? If no, back to my point. To quickly answer JetJaguar below you, yes, I am an utter cunt, but being called a typical hackernews one hurts, considering how I can't stand most HNers.
- wishinghand 9y ago
  > Have you been trained as an engineer, in a country where "engineer" is a very specific thing and is held to higher expectations, including the possibility of having your title taken away by your peers if you do not respect your duty to, first and foremost, your users and/or society, like every country that takes the title of engineer seriously? No country trains software engineers in the way you describe.
  - ballenf 9y ago
    I think Germany was the country described in the post. Whether it's true to the fullest extent is hard to say, but having worked and socialized with them for years it seems mostly true. Engineering is the country's actual official religion. And I mean that as the highest compliment. (No offense to any other country's engineers -- the engineer mindset is the same everywhere, but the mindset of the non-engineer in other countries is the distinction. That is, Germany grants engineers a degree of respect, almost reverence, that I've never seen in the US.)
    - ksk 9y ago
      Our company recently purchased some Hardware I/O devices that came with software (both made in Germany). Lets just say, I'd much rather buy their cars than their software.
  - pikzen 9y ago
    All of Europe, also parts of Canada. No place in the US does, indeed.
    - cookiecaper 9y ago
      Are there standardized licensing bodies for software developers in the EU and Canada? I'd be really interesting in learning more about them if so. I sympathize your argument and I think the field is doing a great job right now demonstrating some of the upsides of a licensing authority, but actually getting one would be bad IMO. Most software is not life and death, and licensing authorities, like unions, quickly become gatekeepers that work to prevent competition whilst simultaneously enriching themselves through extortionary means (today, these are mostly indirect because everyone is on the look out for them, but they are nevertheless still there). There are good arguments that the AMA and ABA have both seriously contributed to the astronomical expense of their respective services.
      - pikzen 9y ago
        >Are there standardized licensing bodies for software developers in the EU and Canada? For engineers, absolutely. For software engineers, absolutely, because they're still engineers. Software development? Go wild, anyone can do it. >licensing authorities, like unions, quickly become gatekeepers that work to prevent competition whilst simultaneously enriching themselves through extortionary means That seems like a terribly US centric that I keep seeing online. Unions in France, as it's the one example I can be certain of, are in no way gatekeepers, and we are a country where they've been immensely powerful when it comes to influencing the state (whether talking about worker's unions or CEO unions). But you can get any job without being in an union, all they're doing is bringing everyone on an equal footing when it comes to negotiations. Licensing authorities are purely a society thing. Either you have a numerus closus, because the end goal is for everyone that passed the selection to have a guaranteed job, with good living conditions, or anyone can pass, and good luck everyone. It works in some cases, doesn't in others.
    - wishinghand 9y ago
      I've never heard of some governing body in France or England taking away the title of "software engineer" for someone who wrote faulty code. What are these governing bodies?
  - gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y ago
    So they should not call themselves engineers - any more than they call themselves doctors or lawyers. They are programmers or software developers. Or potentially software engineers - but certainly not engineers.
- positivecomment 9y ago
  > Have you been trained as an engineer, in a country where "engineer" is a very specific thing and is held to higher expectations, including the possibility of having your title taken away by your peers if you do not respect your duty to, first and foremost, your users and/or society, like every country that takes the title of engineer seriously? I have been trained as a Software Engineer in Istanbul. I am very sorry that my country doesn't fulfill your expectations. > If yes, what in earth makes you think writing Electron apps is a good idea? Engineering is about making trade-offs. There's enough discussion here about what those are for writing Electron apps. > If no, back to my point. What, "no"? What was your point? ...that I'm not an engineer? As I said, I am one. > yes, I am an utter cunt, but being called a typical hackernews one hurts, considering how I can't stand most HNers I don't think you are a cunt. I think you are uninformed and have concrete opinions based on limited or self-fulfilling-prophecy-boosting experience.
smohare 9y ago
Some engineers take exception with software developers using term, given that the disciplines are somewhat different.
- cpburns2009 9y ago
  As computer programmer in the web field, I find it awfully pretentious when web developers or any other programmers call themselves engineers when they are not legally licensed engineers.
  - positivecomment 9y ago
    It says "Software Engineering" on my graduation certificate. I wouldn't be able to get licensed even if I wanted to.

pikzen 9y ago

Have you been trained as an engineer, in a country where "engineer" is a very specific thing and is held to higher expectations, including the possibility of having your title taken away by your peers if you do not respect your duty to, first and foremost, your users and/or society, like every country that takes the title of engineer seriously? If yes, what in earth makes you think writing Electron apps is a good idea? If no, back to my point. To quickly answer JetJaguar below you, yes, I am an utter cunt, but being called a typical hackernews one hurts, considering how I can't stand most HNers.

wishinghand 9y ago
> Have you been trained as an engineer, in a country where "engineer" is a very specific thing and is held to higher expectations, including the possibility of having your title taken away by your peers if you do not respect your duty to, first and foremost, your users and/or society, like every country that takes the title of engineer seriously? No country trains software engineers in the way you describe.
- ballenf 9y ago
  I think Germany was the country described in the post. Whether it's true to the fullest extent is hard to say, but having worked and socialized with them for years it seems mostly true. Engineering is the country's actual official religion. And I mean that as the highest compliment. (No offense to any other country's engineers -- the engineer mindset is the same everywhere, but the mindset of the non-engineer in other countries is the distinction. That is, Germany grants engineers a degree of respect, almost reverence, that I've never seen in the US.)
  - ksk 9y ago
    Our company recently purchased some Hardware I/O devices that came with software (both made in Germany). Lets just say, I'd much rather buy their cars than their software.
- pikzen 9y ago
  All of Europe, also parts of Canada. No place in the US does, indeed.
  - cookiecaper 9y ago
    Are there standardized licensing bodies for software developers in the EU and Canada? I'd be really interesting in learning more about them if so. I sympathize your argument and I think the field is doing a great job right now demonstrating some of the upsides of a licensing authority, but actually getting one would be bad IMO. Most software is not life and death, and licensing authorities, like unions, quickly become gatekeepers that work to prevent competition whilst simultaneously enriching themselves through extortionary means (today, these are mostly indirect because everyone is on the look out for them, but they are nevertheless still there). There are good arguments that the AMA and ABA have both seriously contributed to the astronomical expense of their respective services.
    - pikzen 9y ago
      >Are there standardized licensing bodies for software developers in the EU and Canada? For engineers, absolutely. For software engineers, absolutely, because they're still engineers. Software development? Go wild, anyone can do it. >licensing authorities, like unions, quickly become gatekeepers that work to prevent competition whilst simultaneously enriching themselves through extortionary means That seems like a terribly US centric that I keep seeing online. Unions in France, as it's the one example I can be certain of, are in no way gatekeepers, and we are a country where they've been immensely powerful when it comes to influencing the state (whether talking about worker's unions or CEO unions). But you can get any job without being in an union, all they're doing is bringing everyone on an equal footing when it comes to negotiations. Licensing authorities are purely a society thing. Either you have a numerus closus, because the end goal is for everyone that passed the selection to have a guaranteed job, with good living conditions, or anyone can pass, and good luck everyone. It works in some cases, doesn't in others.
  - wishinghand 9y ago
    I've never heard of some governing body in France or England taking away the title of "software engineer" for someone who wrote faulty code. What are these governing bodies?
- gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y ago
  So they should not call themselves engineers - any more than they call themselves doctors or lawyers. They are programmers or software developers. Or potentially software engineers - but certainly not engineers.
positivecomment 9y ago
> Have you been trained as an engineer, in a country where "engineer" is a very specific thing and is held to higher expectations, including the possibility of having your title taken away by your peers if you do not respect your duty to, first and foremost, your users and/or society, like every country that takes the title of engineer seriously? I have been trained as a Software Engineer in Istanbul. I am very sorry that my country doesn't fulfill your expectations. > If yes, what in earth makes you think writing Electron apps is a good idea? Engineering is about making trade-offs. There's enough discussion here about what those are for writing Electron apps. > If no, back to my point. What, "no"? What was your point? ...that I'm not an engineer? As I said, I am one. > yes, I am an utter cunt, but being called a typical hackernews one hurts, considering how I can't stand most HNers I don't think you are a cunt. I think you are uninformed and have concrete opinions based on limited or self-fulfilling-prophecy-boosting experience.

smohare 9y ago

Some engineers take exception with software developers using term, given that the disciplines are somewhat different.

cpburns2009 9y ago
As computer programmer in the web field, I find it awfully pretentious when web developers or any other programmers call themselves engineers when they are not legally licensed engineers.
- positivecomment 9y ago
  It says "Software Engineering" on my graduation certificate. I wouldn't be able to get licensed even if I wanted to.