4 ms·

It seems to me that Slack could position itself to provide free and open access to certain types of communities like open source projects, charities, etc. Enabl

It seems to me that Slack could position itself to provide free and open access to certain types of communities like open source projects, charities, etc. Enable the "pro" features so long as the community follows the rules. The value of synchronous communication is very real and it should not be precluded, but the points are totally valid. Slack is a closed-garden and it does not contribute to the global conversation if the access and historical record is controlled from within.

rckrd 9y ago
I believe the Cloud Native Computing Foundation qualified for discounted pricing for the Kubernetes slack channel under this program https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833 https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833
- caniszczyk 9y ago
  This is true: https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/03/01/slack-gives-back-k8s-cncf-community/ https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/03/01/slack-gives-back-k8s-cnc... Slack extended their not profit pricing to 501(c)(6) not profit organizations which covers CNCF projects like Kubernetes.
caseysoftware 9y ago
But if your entire infrastructure is centrally managed and can disappear at a company's whim, you're setting your community up for problems.
- joelberger 9y ago
  This is the point that I can't get anyone to see. So what if they provide history? They can take it away at any point too. So what have you accomplished?!
- scrollaway 9y ago
  This applies to Freenode as much as it applies to Slack. If freenode disappears, people using its channels for foss will have similar issues and inconvenience as if Slack/Discord disappear and in both cases, it's recoverable.
  - ue_ 9y ago
    That's why you use Matrix instead.
  - hueving 9y ago
    If freenode disappears, it's less than a day to pick a new network and connect. Nobody changes clients, tooling, etc. That's the difference between a closed walled garden like slack and an open protocol.
    - scrollaway 9y ago
      Nobody changes clients if Slack disappears and is replaced by another webapp. It's all in browser. The UI might change, but the UI also changes when you go from a Mac IRC client to a Windows one, which doesn't happen with web apps. I say this as someone who's used IRC a crapton and is a strong advocate for open protocols (and for more than just ideological reasons): Realistically, if Freenode disappears, IRC will most likely die as a protocol as all major projects switch to non-IRC solutions, which is happening today anyway. A protocol needs users. The only thing IRC has got going for it is federation and openness. It's not easily extensible, it's not secure, it can't benefit from most of the advances we've made in comms and protocols since the 90s, and there isn't even a common format for your messaging history - most clients just use text logs! If you want to advance the state of comms and ensure humans are using open protocols to communicate rather than walled gardens, you first have to acknowledge these flaws and needs. Propping up IRC as something it's not doesn't do anyone any favours.
      - uiri 9y ago
        If Freenode disappears, people will join Debian over on OFTC. I'm not sure if Mozilla and GNU/FSF use Freenode or run their own infrastructure but if the former, then they may set up their own network(s). Other IRC networks than Freenode and OFTC exist too. As far as security goes, SSL is an option for client<->server connections. I hope that at this point it is default for server<->server connections. What else are you expecting for security?
- zimbatm 9y ago
  This is certainly true for github as well.
  - caseysoftware 9y ago
    Git is decentralized so being dependent on a central repo is the users' fault not the organization. But that said, I don't put anything on Github if I can avoid it. Disgusting organization with awful management.
    - flukus 9y ago
      There is a lot of vendor lock in for git these days, everything from CI integration to git clients hard coded for github. We spent most of the 90's and 00's breaking vendor lock in and then forgot it was a thing.

rckrd 9y ago

I believe the Cloud Native Computing Foundation qualified for discounted pricing for the Kubernetes slack channel under this program https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833 https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833

caniszczyk 9y ago
This is true: https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/03/01/slack-gives-back-k8s-cncf-community/ https://www.cncf.io/blog/2017/03/01/slack-gives-back-k8s-cnc... Slack extended their not profit pricing to 501(c)(6) not profit organizations which covers CNCF projects like Kubernetes.

caseysoftware 9y ago

But if your entire infrastructure is centrally managed and can disappear at a company's whim, you're setting your community up for problems.

joelberger 9y ago
This is the point that I can't get anyone to see. So what if they provide history? They can take it away at any point too. So what have you accomplished?!
scrollaway 9y ago
This applies to Freenode as much as it applies to Slack. If freenode disappears, people using its channels for foss will have similar issues and inconvenience as if Slack/Discord disappear and in both cases, it's recoverable.
- ue_ 9y ago
  That's why you use Matrix instead.
- hueving 9y ago
  If freenode disappears, it's less than a day to pick a new network and connect. Nobody changes clients, tooling, etc. That's the difference between a closed walled garden like slack and an open protocol.
  - scrollaway 9y ago
    Nobody changes clients if Slack disappears and is replaced by another webapp. It's all in browser. The UI might change, but the UI also changes when you go from a Mac IRC client to a Windows one, which doesn't happen with web apps. I say this as someone who's used IRC a crapton and is a strong advocate for open protocols (and for more than just ideological reasons): Realistically, if Freenode disappears, IRC will most likely die as a protocol as all major projects switch to non-IRC solutions, which is happening today anyway. A protocol needs users. The only thing IRC has got going for it is federation and openness. It's not easily extensible, it's not secure, it can't benefit from most of the advances we've made in comms and protocols since the 90s, and there isn't even a common format for your messaging history - most clients just use text logs! If you want to advance the state of comms and ensure humans are using open protocols to communicate rather than walled gardens, you first have to acknowledge these flaws and needs. Propping up IRC as something it's not doesn't do anyone any favours.
    - uiri 9y ago
      If Freenode disappears, people will join Debian over on OFTC. I'm not sure if Mozilla and GNU/FSF use Freenode or run their own infrastructure but if the former, then they may set up their own network(s). Other IRC networks than Freenode and OFTC exist too. As far as security goes, SSL is an option for client<->server connections. I hope that at this point it is default for server<->server connections. What else are you expecting for security?
zimbatm 9y ago
This is certainly true for github as well.
- caseysoftware 9y ago
  Git is decentralized so being dependent on a central repo is the users' fault not the organization. But that said, I don't put anything on Github if I can avoid it. Disgusting organization with awful management.
  - flukus 9y ago
    There is a lot of vendor lock in for git these days, everything from CI integration to git clients hard coded for github. We spent most of the 90's and 00's breaking vendor lock in and then forgot it was a thing.