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> The half-functional style is too weird. The widespread use of closures for simple stuff is too weird. There's too much unnecessary originality. Trying to port

by lossolo 10y ago

> The half-functional style is too weird. The widespread use of closures for simple stuff is too weird. There's too much unnecessary originality. Trying to port something from another language to Rust is difficult because Rust's ways of doing things are so different from other languages. This. I've spent some time researching Rust but it's just ugly language for me, really. When I read D everything is so clean, so readable. When I need to read/write Rust, it's just not enjoying for me. There are people that will enjoy it for sure, that came for example from Haskell. Create language like Rust with D like syntax, no GC, no additional indirection, RAII, less strict rules or possibility to turn off some of them and I am sold.

pcwalton 10y ago
> Create language like Rust with D like syntax, no GC, no additional indirection, RAII, less strict rules or possibility to turn off some of them and I am sold. I think that language will end up looking a lot more like Rust than you think. You can't just compare a language that wasn't designed for zero-cost memory safety to one that was, as if the zero-cost memory safety features have no learning curve.
- lossolo 10y ago
  > I think that language will end up looking a lot more like Rust than you think. I disagree, I think you could pick different way based on Cyclone coupling with some modern static analysis techniques, it would not have so many features as Rust have but it would be less invasive and more "C/D'ish".
  - kbenson 10y ago
    > and more "C/D'ish" This I think is where a lot of the pushback comes from. People say want a new C replacement, but some portion of them look at what that actually means, and find they actually want C with a new feature or two because actually learning something new, even new looking, is work. Rust is not C or C++ with a few new features, it's a new language, and some people really want that, and some people are put off by how different it is. It's perfectly fine for people to have a preference, but people should be aware of what it is - a preference. It's not some inviolate law that C's syntax and way of doing things is good, and we should make sure a successor follows that. It's importance to distinguish the familiar from the good. C has a huge advantage in that it's familiar, through it's own popularity and history and in those languages that it influenced. That doesn't mean it's inherently better though.
    - lossolo 10y ago
      I agree with you that people have a preference. For me it's about enjoying what I am doing, I would rather change my job than write Rust every day, not because it's a bad language or I don't know how to use it but because this style of writing the code is not clean and elegant for me. I would rather write D, just my personal taste.

by lossolo 10y ago

pcwalton 10y ago

> Create language like Rust with D like syntax, no GC, no additional indirection, RAII, less strict rules or possibility to turn off some of them and I am sold. I think that language will end up looking a lot more like Rust than you think. You can't just compare a language that wasn't designed for zero-cost memory safety to one that was, as if the zero-cost memory safety features have no learning curve.

lossolo 10y ago
> I think that language will end up looking a lot more like Rust than you think. I disagree, I think you could pick different way based on Cyclone coupling with some modern static analysis techniques, it would not have so many features as Rust have but it would be less invasive and more "C/D'ish".
- kbenson 10y ago
  > and more "C/D'ish" This I think is where a lot of the pushback comes from. People say want a new C replacement, but some portion of them look at what that actually means, and find they actually want C with a new feature or two because actually learning something new, even new looking, is work. Rust is not C or C++ with a few new features, it's a new language, and some people really want that, and some people are put off by how different it is. It's perfectly fine for people to have a preference, but people should be aware of what it is - a preference. It's not some inviolate law that C's syntax and way of doing things is good, and we should make sure a successor follows that. It's importance to distinguish the familiar from the good. C has a huge advantage in that it's familiar, through it's own popularity and history and in those languages that it influenced. That doesn't mean it's inherently better though.
  - lossolo 10y ago
    I agree with you that people have a preference. For me it's about enjoying what I am doing, I would rather change my job than write Rust every day, not because it's a bad language or I don't know how to use it but because this style of writing the code is not clean and elegant for me. I would rather write D, just my personal taste.