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I think you missed the entire point of the article. It's not saying that they just need to study, they also need to know what the secret to the success is. Woul

I think you missed the entire point of the article. It's not saying that they just need to study, they also need to know what the secret to the success is. Would you have thought that a test like the PSAT would be useful for 11th graders only so that they could get national merit scholarships? I didn't know this until my wealthy friends told me...

linkmotif 10y ago
The SAT in its own right is total BS. You want to fix the problems with wealth inequality you don't go getting people on equal footing with the SAT. You get rid of the SAT, you get rid of many other things. You put power into the hands of the people instead of huge corporations like the College Board and "universities" that are really just minor league sports centers.
deleted 10y ago
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Bartweiss 10y ago
> Would you have thought that a test like the PSAT would be useful for 11th graders only so that they could get national merit scholarships? Wait, is this actually not common knowledge? I could swear it was included with the official PSAT materials we got handed in the test, and I know my school publicized it like crazy prior to the exam. It was a mediocre public school, too. I totally believe you, but that (way more than the study-ability of the SAT) is a surprising thing to me. Differences in quality I get, differences in common knowledge still throw me off.
BeetleB 10y ago
>It's not saying that they just need to study, they also need to know what the secret to the success is. I'll grant that the SAT has changed since I took it, but if people are claiming the secret to a good grade in the SAT is to take prep courses for the SAT, they are mistaken. The "secret" is to know how to study effectively. People who need a paid tutor to help them with the SAT are not learning the lessons they should.
- deleted 10y ago
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- Bartweiss 10y ago
  > People who need a paid tutor to help them with the SAT are not learning the lessons they should. No, but I'm sure it helps boost scores among people who don't want to study. I think this is undervalued as a way wealth/class perpetuate themselves. A $30 SAT study book is enough to boost your score if you're self-motivated and good at studying, but being forced to sit down with a $3,000 tutor can drag your score up even if you don't have any study skills or motivation at all.
  - BeetleB 10y ago
    >No, but I'm sure it helps boost scores among people who don't want to study. And this is not to be encouraged, which is my point. There is nothing to envy about someone who does not want to study and is compensating by throwing money at the problem. Most of these people will do poorly at some point in college (well, at least the non-highly-ranked one I went to).
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      Ok, fair point. It's not that being unmotivated should be encouraged, it's that you can get away with it much better if you're wealthy. I guess the question here is whether we want the SAT to be resource-blind. If you come from a rich enough family (and damn have I seen this happen), you can throw money at low motivation all the way through college. Take 8 years, pay summer tuition, hire tutors, whatever. So the SAT is an accurate reflection of future prospects in that sense, but people arguing it should reflect personal attributes instead of whole-culture odds of success aren't going to be pleased about it.
linkmotif 10y ago
I'm just disturbed by what I see as the desire to bring the rich down instead of the poor up. Theres a huge difference between attacking poverty and attacking the rich, especially "rich kids". Pretty scary. Smells and looks and feels like little more than hate.
linkmotif 10y ago
I'm just disturbed by what I see as the desire to bring them rich down instead of the poor up. Theres a huge difference between attacking poverty and attacking the rich, especially "rich kids". Pretty scary. Smells and looks and feels like little more than hate.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Would you have thought that a test like the PSAT would be useful for 11th graders only so that they could get national merit scholarships? Since the actual title of the test is "The Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test (PSAT/NMSQT)", yes. I mean, I was by no means rich, and that's the only reason I took it (and I took it long after the first time so took the SAT.)

linkmotif 10y ago

The SAT in its own right is total BS. You want to fix the problems with wealth inequality you don't go getting people on equal footing with the SAT. You get rid of the SAT, you get rid of many other things. You put power into the hands of the people instead of huge corporations like the College Board and "universities" that are really just minor league sports centers.

deleted 10y ago

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Bartweiss 10y ago

> Would you have thought that a test like the PSAT would be useful for 11th graders only so that they could get national merit scholarships? Wait, is this actually not common knowledge? I could swear it was included with the official PSAT materials we got handed in the test, and I know my school publicized it like crazy prior to the exam. It was a mediocre public school, too. I totally believe you, but that (way more than the study-ability of the SAT) is a surprising thing to me. Differences in quality I get, differences in common knowledge still throw me off.

BeetleB 10y ago

>It's not saying that they just need to study, they also need to know what the secret to the success is. I'll grant that the SAT has changed since I took it, but if people are claiming the secret to a good grade in the SAT is to take prep courses for the SAT, they are mistaken. The "secret" is to know how to study effectively. People who need a paid tutor to help them with the SAT are not learning the lessons they should.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Bartweiss 10y ago
> People who need a paid tutor to help them with the SAT are not learning the lessons they should. No, but I'm sure it helps boost scores among people who don't want to study. I think this is undervalued as a way wealth/class perpetuate themselves. A $30 SAT study book is enough to boost your score if you're self-motivated and good at studying, but being forced to sit down with a $3,000 tutor can drag your score up even if you don't have any study skills or motivation at all.
- BeetleB 10y ago
  >No, but I'm sure it helps boost scores among people who don't want to study. And this is not to be encouraged, which is my point. There is nothing to envy about someone who does not want to study and is compensating by throwing money at the problem. Most of these people will do poorly at some point in college (well, at least the non-highly-ranked one I went to).
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    Ok, fair point. It's not that being unmotivated should be encouraged, it's that you can get away with it much better if you're wealthy. I guess the question here is whether we want the SAT to be resource-blind. If you come from a rich enough family (and damn have I seen this happen), you can throw money at low motivation all the way through college. Take 8 years, pay summer tuition, hire tutors, whatever. So the SAT is an accurate reflection of future prospects in that sense, but people arguing it should reflect personal attributes instead of whole-culture odds of success aren't going to be pleased about it.

linkmotif 10y ago

I'm just disturbed by what I see as the desire to bring the rich down instead of the poor up. Theres a huge difference between attacking poverty and attacking the rich, especially "rich kids". Pretty scary. Smells and looks and feels like little more than hate.

linkmotif 10y ago

I'm just disturbed by what I see as the desire to bring them rich down instead of the poor up. Theres a huge difference between attacking poverty and attacking the rich, especially "rich kids". Pretty scary. Smells and looks and feels like little more than hate.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Would you have thought that a test like the PSAT would be useful for 11th graders only so that they could get national merit scholarships? Since the actual title of the test is "The Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test (PSAT/NMSQT)", yes. I mean, I was by no means rich, and that's the only reason I took it (and I took it long after the first time so took the SAT.)