4 ms·

> In many countries, police are trained to de-escalate potentially hostile situations. Only in the US and probably a couple of police states are police officers

> In many countries, police are trained to de-escalate potentially hostile situations. Only in the US and probably a couple of police states are police officers required to escalate to violence. It's not that simple. The police in the US are trained to de-escalate situations too. That doesn't stop police violence from occurring either in the US or elsewhere (there is no shortage of horrific stories of police abuse from western/central Europe as well, for example).

MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
>The police in the US are trained to de-escalate situations too. Sure, but practically speaking if you have a realistic understanding of how most US police forces operate, you know that involving them in any kind of dispute greatly increases the chance of violence and harm for all involved. YMMV per locality and situation, but it's a pretty sensible rule of thumb that police involvement equals increased risk of violence, even in previously nonviolent conflicts. Which is sad and unnecessary. I think it directly results from the prevalence of "warrior mentality" in US police training and operations. They are trained to view all citizens as potential enemy combatants to be dominated, rather than innocents to be protected; they are trained to put the safety of themselves and other officers above the safety of the citizenry; and they are trained to, if not always escalate, certainly to err on the side of escalation if there is any hint of violent action or ill intent from the citizens they interact with.
- blawson 10y ago
  That's probably because there is a not-unreasonable expectation that the situations the police are called out for will involve deadly weapons. Obviously not the case here, but in general, when anyone could realistically be carrying a gun, I don't think the current situation is a big surprise.
  - roninb 10y ago
    Right... because a doctor on a plane in the US has some semblance of a chance of carrying a deadly weapon... This is kinda the point of OP, police violence has become so common-place that we take it as normal happenstance when it's used. There's an air of expected guilt for anyone on the receiving side of the violence but no doubt whatsoever on whether the violence was necessary in the first place.
WalterSear 10y ago
They aren't penalized for escalating it inappropriately. Even being fired for cause just means getting the same job in the next town over.
mcv 10y ago
> The police in the US are trained to de-escalate situations too. Are you sure? I've never heard of it. I have heard of a police officer who was fired for de-escalating a situation through his training as a marine. Maybe some police department do train their officers to de-escalate, but it's very clear that many don't. In fact, many US police officers are overly eager to de-escalate. > That doesn't stop police violence from occurring either in the US or elsewhere (there is no shortage of horrific stories of police abuse from western/central Europe as well, for example). Compared to the US, there is absolutely a shortage of stories about police abuse in western/central Europe. Yes, it happens, but not on that scale, and the kind of police violence that Americans have come to accept as normal is not considered acceptable in most of Europe.
- vsl 10y ago
  > I've never heard of it. Wonder why. Because it's not newsworthy.
- xupybd 10y ago
  Here in New Zealand, the police absolutely are trained to de-escalate situations. There are times when it's not possible, but every interaction I've had with the police here they've been amazing. Polite but they're still in control and authoritative. I can't speak more highly of the New Zealand police. That said we have strict gun control and most of the time they don't have to deal with offenders with firearms. If they do, they call out the Armed offenders Squad, at that point the gloves are off.
syshum 10y ago
>there is no shortage of horrific stories of police abuse from western/central Europe as well, for example The biggest difference is most of the time when an officer abuses the public in the EU they are fired and criminally charged In the US they are given a 3-5 day paid vacation while the police union and the dept find away to cover up the event, and the insurance company for the dept strong arms the victim into taking a no fault settlement that rarely even covers the medical costs for the victim
ajmurmann 10y ago
Police in the US on general received much less training than in Europe. “In the US, police training lasts on average 19 weeks,” she writes, while “in much of Europe that would be unthinkable. In Germany, for example, police train for at least 130 weeks - http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7709638 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7709638

MaxfordAndSons 10y ago

>The police in the US are trained to de-escalate situations too. Sure, but practically speaking if you have a realistic understanding of how most US police forces operate, you know that involving them in any kind of dispute greatly increases the chance of violence and harm for all involved. YMMV per locality and situation, but it's a pretty sensible rule of thumb that police involvement equals increased risk of violence, even in previously nonviolent conflicts. Which is sad and unnecessary. I think it directly results from the prevalence of "warrior mentality" in US police training and operations. They are trained to view all citizens as potential enemy combatants to be dominated, rather than innocents to be protected; they are trained to put the safety of themselves and other officers above the safety of the citizenry; and they are trained to, if not always escalate, certainly to err on the side of escalation if there is any hint of violent action or ill intent from the citizens they interact with.

blawson 10y ago
That's probably because there is a not-unreasonable expectation that the situations the police are called out for will involve deadly weapons. Obviously not the case here, but in general, when anyone could realistically be carrying a gun, I don't think the current situation is a big surprise.
- roninb 10y ago
  Right... because a doctor on a plane in the US has some semblance of a chance of carrying a deadly weapon... This is kinda the point of OP, police violence has become so common-place that we take it as normal happenstance when it's used. There's an air of expected guilt for anyone on the receiving side of the violence but no doubt whatsoever on whether the violence was necessary in the first place.

WalterSear 10y ago

They aren't penalized for escalating it inappropriately. Even being fired for cause just means getting the same job in the next town over.

mcv 10y ago

> The police in the US are trained to de-escalate situations too. Are you sure? I've never heard of it. I have heard of a police officer who was fired for de-escalating a situation through his training as a marine. Maybe some police department do train their officers to de-escalate, but it's very clear that many don't. In fact, many US police officers are overly eager to de-escalate. > That doesn't stop police violence from occurring either in the US or elsewhere (there is no shortage of horrific stories of police abuse from western/central Europe as well, for example). Compared to the US, there is absolutely a shortage of stories about police abuse in western/central Europe. Yes, it happens, but not on that scale, and the kind of police violence that Americans have come to accept as normal is not considered acceptable in most of Europe.

vsl 10y ago
> I've never heard of it. Wonder why. Because it's not newsworthy.
xupybd 10y ago
Here in New Zealand, the police absolutely are trained to de-escalate situations. There are times when it's not possible, but every interaction I've had with the police here they've been amazing. Polite but they're still in control and authoritative. I can't speak more highly of the New Zealand police. That said we have strict gun control and most of the time they don't have to deal with offenders with firearms. If they do, they call out the Armed offenders Squad, at that point the gloves are off.

syshum 10y ago

>there is no shortage of horrific stories of police abuse from western/central Europe as well, for example The biggest difference is most of the time when an officer abuses the public in the EU they are fired and criminally charged In the US they are given a 3-5 day paid vacation while the police union and the dept find away to cover up the event, and the insurance company for the dept strong arms the victim into taking a no fault settlement that rarely even covers the medical costs for the victim

ajmurmann 10y ago

Police in the US on general received much less training than in Europe. “In the US, police training lasts on average 19 weeks,” she writes, while “in much of Europe that would be unthinkable. In Germany, for example, police train for at least 130 weeks - http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7709638 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7709638