3 ms·

You have to understand why they overbook - jetfuel is extremely expensive and produces a massive amount of carbon pollution - most of the airlines barely operat

You have to understand why they overbook - jetfuel is extremely expensive and produces a massive amount of carbon pollution - most of the airlines barely operate at margin as it is. Cargo is cheaper to fly than passengers and many of them are converting more and more towards cargo for that reason. You don't want to be flying around in jets which aren't at capacity, it's an enormous waste of money and fuel - your tickets would cost significantly more and they'd have to run more flights resulting in more pollution. Their estimates are pretty good even - your odds of being overbooked - even on United, one of the worst offenders here - are about 1/1000. From what I've heard, you can sort of bargain with them from what I've heard, free food and drink, hotel accommodations, a partial refund even are commonly obtainable if you get delayed - though that kind of thing may depend on the airline. According to https://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is-overbooked-dont-volunteer-to-get-bum-1722036179 https://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is-overbooked-dont-vol... you can actually get 2-4x the ticket price if you deny getting bumped. I'd take that kind of cash in many situations. This was severely mishandled - the big mistake here was boarding the passengers before knowing the final count with the employees. It caused them not be able to bargain with individual customers to find someone who was willing to give up their seat for some perks or cash.

mthoms 9y ago
> most of the airlines barely operate at margin as it is. You're spreading very outdated information. Airlines are currently making record profits: "2017 is expected to be the eighth year in a row of aggregate airline profitability" "These three years are the best performance in the industry’s history" From: http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx
- problems 9y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that more because air traffic is up rather than their margins having gone up? Maybe oil prices of the day play a role too... but I wouldn't count on that to be true for long. Even in this report though, you'll note that the fares are down 63% since 1995 - the competition is pretty fierce here. The absolute profit is only around measured 5% even today. I wouldn't exactly call that a great margin.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    The absolute profit is only around measured 5% even today. I wouldn't exactly call that a great margin. You would if you were a grocer. Deregulated airlines have low margins; that's a fact of life. They pay fuel bills, they pay interest, the executives steal what they can, and the unions take everything else. When they miscalculate and pay the unions so much they can't cover their bonds, they reorganize through bankruptcy. None of this is new, and none of this justifies racist violence.
    - problems 9y ago
      I did not suggest this justifies anything - in fact I said this was severely mishandled. I merely tried to explain the slight against overbooking some people seem to have - which is mostly unrelated entirely, but that's why I didn't respond to the top post, but to a post complaining about the practice of overbooking. Though I don't see anything that makes me think this was a racist act, where'd you get that idea?
      - jessaustin 9y ago
        Sorry I thought you were talking about airline profits, and offering an opinion about them. I disagree with the opinion I thought you offered, because every deregulated airline in existence has similar or worse margins, nearly all the time. Somehow most of them have been able to avoid both brutalizing their passengers and United-level overbooking. It's racist because a small middle-aged Chinese physician was forcibly removed. There's no way they would have removed a middle-aged white physician. Likewise, even the big tough airline security asshole who assaulted the physician would have hesitated to forcibly remove someone his own size or larger. This passenger was someone he could handle the way he would handle a child or a woman, without suffering the same legal repercussions that handling a child or woman in that fashion would entail. Yes, I know there are reports of using a "random computer" to select this passenger. That's what's known in the airline industry as "lying" and in the media industry as "we like to copy and paste press releases".
syshum 9y ago
> jetfuel is extremely expensive and produces a massive amount of carbon pollution Which is not relevant to over booking, >most of the airlines barely operate at margin as it is. False, extremely false >You don't want to be flying around in jets which aren't at capacity, you do not want to be flying around jets that have UNSOLD seats, you do want to be flying around jets that have SOLD but unoccupied seats, it costs far less in jet fuel the fly an empty seat than a 150-250lbs human with all their luggage. this is why the whole overbooking justification is bullshit. They lose money when they have to fly a UNDER SOLD flight, meaning the seats are empty because no one bought a ticket. They DO NOT lose money when they sell a ticket and no one shows up. The Rebooking fees, and various other fees more and compensate for the no-shows, and in some cases the fare is non-changeable non-refundable, so the person that does not show up has to buy a new ticket at full value. There is no ethical, economical, or any other justification for Overselling flights than Greed.. Pure and simple It should be considered fraud and should be illegal
- Scea91 9y ago
  If they need to make some ammount from tickets, lets say $10000. Then your ticket can cost either $35 or $32 if they overbook. Parent is right you are wrong. It is economical to sell as many tickets as possible and ecological to try to fit in as many people as possible to a single flight. Overbooking is good and helps with both.

mthoms 9y ago

> most of the airlines barely operate at margin as it is. You're spreading very outdated information. Airlines are currently making record profits: "2017 is expected to be the eighth year in a row of aggregate airline profitability" "These three years are the best performance in the industry’s history" From: http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-12-08-01.aspx

problems 9y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that more because air traffic is up rather than their margins having gone up? Maybe oil prices of the day play a role too... but I wouldn't count on that to be true for long. Even in this report though, you'll note that the fares are down 63% since 1995 - the competition is pretty fierce here. The absolute profit is only around measured 5% even today. I wouldn't exactly call that a great margin.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  The absolute profit is only around measured 5% even today. I wouldn't exactly call that a great margin. You would if you were a grocer. Deregulated airlines have low margins; that's a fact of life. They pay fuel bills, they pay interest, the executives steal what they can, and the unions take everything else. When they miscalculate and pay the unions so much they can't cover their bonds, they reorganize through bankruptcy. None of this is new, and none of this justifies racist violence.
  - problems 9y ago
    I did not suggest this justifies anything - in fact I said this was severely mishandled. I merely tried to explain the slight against overbooking some people seem to have - which is mostly unrelated entirely, but that's why I didn't respond to the top post, but to a post complaining about the practice of overbooking. Though I don't see anything that makes me think this was a racist act, where'd you get that idea?
    - jessaustin 9y ago
      Sorry I thought you were talking about airline profits, and offering an opinion about them. I disagree with the opinion I thought you offered, because every deregulated airline in existence has similar or worse margins, nearly all the time. Somehow most of them have been able to avoid both brutalizing their passengers and United-level overbooking. It's racist because a small middle-aged Chinese physician was forcibly removed. There's no way they would have removed a middle-aged white physician. Likewise, even the big tough airline security asshole who assaulted the physician would have hesitated to forcibly remove someone his own size or larger. This passenger was someone he could handle the way he would handle a child or a woman, without suffering the same legal repercussions that handling a child or woman in that fashion would entail. Yes, I know there are reports of using a "random computer" to select this passenger. That's what's known in the airline industry as "lying" and in the media industry as "we like to copy and paste press releases".

syshum 9y ago

> jetfuel is extremely expensive and produces a massive amount of carbon pollution Which is not relevant to over booking, >most of the airlines barely operate at margin as it is. False, extremely false >You don't want to be flying around in jets which aren't at capacity, you do not want to be flying around jets that have UNSOLD seats, you do want to be flying around jets that have SOLD but unoccupied seats, it costs far less in jet fuel the fly an empty seat than a 150-250lbs human with all their luggage. this is why the whole overbooking justification is bullshit. They lose money when they have to fly a UNDER SOLD flight, meaning the seats are empty because no one bought a ticket. They DO NOT lose money when they sell a ticket and no one shows up. The Rebooking fees, and various other fees more and compensate for the no-shows, and in some cases the fare is non-changeable non-refundable, so the person that does not show up has to buy a new ticket at full value. There is no ethical, economical, or any other justification for Overselling flights than Greed.. Pure and simple It should be considered fraud and should be illegal

Scea91 9y ago
If they need to make some ammount from tickets, lets say $10000. Then your ticket can cost either $35 or $32 if they overbook. Parent is right you are wrong. It is economical to sell as many tickets as possible and ecological to try to fit in as many people as possible to a single flight. Overbooking is good and helps with both.