5 ms·

Whoever decided to force the guy off the plane is an idiot. They could have simply raised the comp for volunteering slowly until someone took the money.

by xapata 10y ago

mabbo 10y ago
But that costs money immediately. Forcing someone off the plane and causing a huge HR mess only costs money long-term, and it doesn't come out of my budget, so why should I care?
- xapata 10y ago
  Good point. Whoever set the incentives badly and set some arbitrary cap at $1350 should be fired.
  - cmurf 10y ago
    That would be a regulator or Congress. The airline would set no cap, if they could get away with macing you to get you off the airplane, they would. "Next time, just get off the plane when we ask the first time." When a family member, or associate of Congress gets hit with this experience, then maybe the fines get adjusted accordingly. Anyway, hopefully the guy gets a good lawyer.
    - justin66 10y ago
      > That would be a regulator or Congress. No, it's a United policy: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25 https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag... The airline hasn't commented yet on why they didn't go above 800, when they could go to 1350.
      - cmurf 10y ago
        Maybe I'm thinking of baggage. I know there's a limit on liability applied by law somewhere.
      - phil21 10y ago
        That's just IDB coverage, mandated by the FAA. They don't get a choice here. You will find the exact same penalties and limits for all airlines. Voluntary compensation is entirely different - they are free to offer whatever they like to get someone off the flight. Involuntary unfortunately incentives keeping those limits low as a matter of airline policy though, of course. They can force someone off a plane for usually far less than $800 if they feel like taking a customer good will hit. This ORD-SDF flight certainly was nowhere near $1350 in IDB comp - likely less than $300 in mandatory IDB comp based on average ticket prices. I've seen these offers go as high as $2,000 during significant service disruptions on major airlines. This is a corporate policy failure, as I'm sure the gate agent was only allowed to authorize up to $800 for that flight or something dumb. They rolled the dice on saving a few hundred bucks against their reputation this time. I think it's safe to say they lost badly on that calculation.
        kchoudhu 10y ago
        You're assuming that low level airline employees even realized they were rolling dice. They were told to save cash, and by golly, they saved that cash.
      - huac 10y ago
        No, that's US law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    I dream of a world where bump compensation is unlimited. The same people who now churn miles to fly everywhere for free would then start strategically chasing storms to get bumped from flights and make tens of thousands of dollars in compensation. We have mileage runs and mattress runs already; why can't we have bump runs as well? Someone get Carl Weathers on the phone!
    - xapata 10y ago
      The bump fee only works if it's not weather related. Mechanical and overbooking only. Oh, and pilot scheduling mistakes.
      - kchoudhu 10y ago
        Today's cancellation is weather-related. But when you get bumped from the make-up flight tomorrow because of overcrowding, it's an operational issue. It's a multi-day play.
  - phil21 10y ago
    The cap really isn't being explained properly, it's actually almost assuredly not relevant to this guy's situation. The actual penalty is 4x the cost of the segment. Note this is not what you paid for the ticket on your credit card divided by two (in the event of a direct round trip ticket). This guy was likely owed somewhere in the range of a few hundred bucks as a ORD-SDF segment is likely worth about $50-100 after fees are excluded. The $1350 is simply the max, your ticket has to be worth at least $337.50 for that to matter - at which time it's against you of course. Think you'd probably have to fire congress to make that limit and multiplier higher :)
    - syshum 10y ago
      This is incorrect The law says >Compensation shall be 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $1,350, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation Stopover is defined in the law as >>Stopover means a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours, at a point between the place of departure and the final destination. Thus the carrier is responsible for 4x the total cost of the ticket, from Pick to destination unless the connecting layover is more than 4 hours in length as to the point on "after fees excluded" the law requires compensation based on the full fare fare is defined as >>Fare means the price paid for air transportation including all mandatory taxes and fees SO while some fees may be included, if they are optional addons like baggage fees, upgrades, drinks, meals, etc. Any mandatory fees and taxation must be included Source:https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5
  - coldpie 10y ago
    That's the maximum amount that they're required to offer by law. They're welcome to voluntarily exceed that cap.
- acchow 10y ago
  Because you will get fired if you manage your reports to behave in this way.
mastax 10y ago
According to Reddit hearsay they offered increasing amounts up to $800 but no one budged. One passenger offered to leave for $1500 and the crew laughed. I'm assuming there's corporate policy that puts a maximum cap on compensation.
- walterbell 10y ago
  Delta paid more than $1000 to passengers in a similar situation: https://consumerist.com/2017/04/10/one-family-earned-11000-by-not-flying-delta-during-delay-filled-weekend/ https://consumerist.com/2017/04/10/one-family-earned-11000-b...
- xapata 10y ago
  There is. Delta says $600 for a 4-hour forced rebook and up to $1200 or $1400 for longer. Can't remember the exact amount. Ah wait, I think it's some formula based on miles and delay. Regardless, it's some arbitrary cap for no good reason.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Any maximum cap is ridiculous. Let the free market reign! The flight itself represents many tens of thousands of dollars of fares. United have a price they were willing to cost the seat, they were unwilling to bear the cost. Either way, it's United's PR disaster to handle.
- jessaustin 10y ago
  ...the crew laughed. I guess we should film everything while traveling. Editing the laughter together with the dragging and screaming would be golden...
  - xapata 10y ago
    > film everything Ubiquitous surveillance of citizens is bad. Ubiquitous surveillance by citizens is good.
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    The laughter might be the most ridiculous part of this. If offered them to get off for 10k in actual money and would have found that perfectly reasonable given the situation they were in. The laughter shows that they somehow set themselves as above the market and the passengers at their mercy. They technically are, but see where it got United.

Whoever decided to force the guy off the plane is an idiot. They could have simply raised the comp for volunteering slowly until someone took the money.

by xapata 10y ago

Whoever decided to force the guy off the plane is an idiot. They could have simply raised the comp for volunteering slowly until someone took the money.

mabbo 10y ago

But that costs money immediately. Forcing someone off the plane and causing a huge HR mess only costs money long-term, and it doesn't come out of my budget, so why should I care?

xapata 10y ago
Good point. Whoever set the incentives badly and set some arbitrary cap at $1350 should be fired.
- cmurf 10y ago
  That would be a regulator or Congress. The airline would set no cap, if they could get away with macing you to get you off the airplane, they would. "Next time, just get off the plane when we ask the first time." When a family member, or associate of Congress gets hit with this experience, then maybe the fines get adjusted accordingly. Anyway, hopefully the guy gets a good lawyer.
  - justin66 10y ago
    > That would be a regulator or Congress. No, it's a United policy: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25 https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag... The airline hasn't commented yet on why they didn't go above 800, when they could go to 1350.
    - cmurf 10y ago
      Maybe I'm thinking of baggage. I know there's a limit on liability applied by law somewhere.
    - phil21 10y ago
      That's just IDB coverage, mandated by the FAA. They don't get a choice here. You will find the exact same penalties and limits for all airlines. Voluntary compensation is entirely different - they are free to offer whatever they like to get someone off the flight. Involuntary unfortunately incentives keeping those limits low as a matter of airline policy though, of course. They can force someone off a plane for usually far less than $800 if they feel like taking a customer good will hit. This ORD-SDF flight certainly was nowhere near $1350 in IDB comp - likely less than $300 in mandatory IDB comp based on average ticket prices. I've seen these offers go as high as $2,000 during significant service disruptions on major airlines. This is a corporate policy failure, as I'm sure the gate agent was only allowed to authorize up to $800 for that flight or something dumb. They rolled the dice on saving a few hundred bucks against their reputation this time. I think it's safe to say they lost badly on that calculation.
      - kchoudhu 10y ago
        You're assuming that low level airline employees even realized they were rolling dice. They were told to save cash, and by golly, they saved that cash.
    - huac 10y ago
      No, that's US law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  I dream of a world where bump compensation is unlimited. The same people who now churn miles to fly everywhere for free would then start strategically chasing storms to get bumped from flights and make tens of thousands of dollars in compensation. We have mileage runs and mattress runs already; why can't we have bump runs as well? Someone get Carl Weathers on the phone!
  - xapata 10y ago
    The bump fee only works if it's not weather related. Mechanical and overbooking only. Oh, and pilot scheduling mistakes.
    - kchoudhu 10y ago
      Today's cancellation is weather-related. But when you get bumped from the make-up flight tomorrow because of overcrowding, it's an operational issue. It's a multi-day play.
- phil21 10y ago
  The cap really isn't being explained properly, it's actually almost assuredly not relevant to this guy's situation. The actual penalty is 4x the cost of the segment. Note this is not what you paid for the ticket on your credit card divided by two (in the event of a direct round trip ticket). This guy was likely owed somewhere in the range of a few hundred bucks as a ORD-SDF segment is likely worth about $50-100 after fees are excluded. The $1350 is simply the max, your ticket has to be worth at least $337.50 for that to matter - at which time it's against you of course. Think you'd probably have to fire congress to make that limit and multiplier higher :)
  - syshum 10y ago
    This is incorrect The law says >Compensation shall be 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $1,350, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation Stopover is defined in the law as >>Stopover means a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours, at a point between the place of departure and the final destination. Thus the carrier is responsible for 4x the total cost of the ticket, from Pick to destination unless the connecting layover is more than 4 hours in length as to the point on "after fees excluded" the law requires compensation based on the full fare fare is defined as >>Fare means the price paid for air transportation including all mandatory taxes and fees SO while some fees may be included, if they are optional addons like baggage fees, upgrades, drinks, meals, etc. Any mandatory fees and taxation must be included Source:https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5
- coldpie 10y ago
  That's the maximum amount that they're required to offer by law. They're welcome to voluntarily exceed that cap.
acchow 10y ago
Because you will get fired if you manage your reports to behave in this way.

mastax 10y ago

According to Reddit hearsay they offered increasing amounts up to $800 but no one budged. One passenger offered to leave for $1500 and the crew laughed. I'm assuming there's corporate policy that puts a maximum cap on compensation.

walterbell 10y ago
Delta paid more than $1000 to passengers in a similar situation: https://consumerist.com/2017/04/10/one-family-earned-11000-by-not-flying-delta-during-delay-filled-weekend/ https://consumerist.com/2017/04/10/one-family-earned-11000-b...
xapata 10y ago
There is. Delta says $600 for a 4-hour forced rebook and up to $1200 or $1400 for longer. Can't remember the exact amount. Ah wait, I think it's some formula based on miles and delay. Regardless, it's some arbitrary cap for no good reason.
r00fus 10y ago
Any maximum cap is ridiculous. Let the free market reign! The flight itself represents many tens of thousands of dollars of fares. United have a price they were willing to cost the seat, they were unwilling to bear the cost. Either way, it's United's PR disaster to handle.
jessaustin 10y ago
...the crew laughed. I guess we should film everything while traveling. Editing the laughter together with the dragging and screaming would be golden...
- xapata 10y ago
  > film everything Ubiquitous surveillance of citizens is bad. Ubiquitous surveillance by citizens is good.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  The laughter might be the most ridiculous part of this. If offered them to get off for 10k in actual money and would have found that perfectly reasonable given the situation they were in. The laughter shows that they somehow set themselves as above the market and the passengers at their mercy. They technically are, but see where it got United.