5 ms·

As they should be, economic mobility in the United States is pretty low. Hard work can move you a couple rungs on the ladder but the predominant factor is still

As they should be, economic mobility in the United States is pretty low. Hard work can move you a couple rungs on the ladder but the predominant factor is still on which rung you started.

CuriouslyC 10y ago
The system doesn't reward hard work, it rewards good ideas. One properly executed good idea is enough to move you quite far on the ladder. Sadly people over commit their time and live stressful lives. To have good ideas you need relaxed idle time to study and think.
- dpark 10y ago
  Most of the nation isn't involved in revolutionary entrepreneurship fueled by VC money. You're talking about why some people become billionaires and others only make 6 figures. Economic mobility is a lot more about moving from low 5-digits to high 5-digits. Good ideas don't matter so much there.
  - zeroer 10y ago
    I would argue that good ideas matter a lot, specifically what one studies and/or what job you choose to train for and how you go about doing so and how much time you dedicate to it.
    - dpark 10y ago
      I think that's largely luck. Most people who go into engineering do so because they have some "natural aptitude". That's luck of the draw. Conversely, I'd say that studying history is also largely (bad) luck. A kid has some interest in it and they're too shortsighted to understand what it means to carry tens of thousands of dollars in nondischargable debt while working a low paying job because history degrees are not in demand. Of course, it's largely luck whether a person even goes to college. If you're born upper middle income or higher, college is basically a certainty. If you're born low income, it's much less likely.
      - CuriouslyC 10y ago
        I think Luck is something people who've stopped struggling against mediocrity lean on so they don't have to feel bad. You have a huge degree of control over your life. I started in just about the worst position possible in this game, and now I make my own rules. I lived in a tent and got food stamps so I could afford to attend a community college. I studied whatever interested me, and I didn't decide on a specific track until I was about 120 units deep. I nearly lived in the library because I couldn't afford to buy textbooks. That isn't luck, that's determination. After college, I took several positions that paid shit, on the condition that they gave me a lot of free time, exposure to interesting new science and technology, and latitude in how I did my work. I used that free time to read scientific journal articles and practice my programming. That wasn't luck, it was an investment. Now I'm in the position of having almost total control over my work. I choose what I work on, how I contribute, and my work schedule. Beyond that, I'm nearly debt free - I had to take a 10 year mortgage to finance my house, but I'm going to pay that off several years early.
        frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
        Sure but there are fewer and fewer people like you.[1] If you take it that social mobility is actually declining what are we to take that to mean? That more now than in previous times have "stopped strugging against mediocrity"? I don't really buy that, I'd say that it's that they're unlucky. Political forces beyond their individual control have influenced their chances to build a better life. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...
        CuriouslyC 10y ago
        The problem isn't that social mobility is no longer possible. The problem is that the current social narrative for how you achieve that mobility is no longer accurate. You can march for 16 hours a day and never reach your destination if you're walking in the wrong direction. Unfortunately, most people blindly trust the social narrative. As a result, rather than step back and question their direction, they proceed in an unproductive manner. When things don't work out, rather than admit their chosen path was poor, they blame circumstances.
- sharemywin 10y ago
  One properly executed good idea aka - many, many hours of very hard work
  - CuriouslyC 10y ago
    That depends on how long it takes you to write up a patent application, then build and shop a prototype I suppose. You could earn 20 years of royalties at somewhere between 5 and 15% with a couple hundred total hours total investment. Of course, the subject matter knowledge required to come up with the invention will be higher, but from my perspective that part is fun.

As they should be, economic mobility in the United States is pretty low. Hard work can move you a couple rungs on the ladder but the predominant factor is still on which rung you started.

CuriouslyC 10y ago

The system doesn't reward hard work, it rewards good ideas. One properly executed good idea is enough to move you quite far on the ladder. Sadly people over commit their time and live stressful lives. To have good ideas you need relaxed idle time to study and think.

dpark 10y ago
Most of the nation isn't involved in revolutionary entrepreneurship fueled by VC money. You're talking about why some people become billionaires and others only make 6 figures. Economic mobility is a lot more about moving from low 5-digits to high 5-digits. Good ideas don't matter so much there.
- zeroer 10y ago
  I would argue that good ideas matter a lot, specifically what one studies and/or what job you choose to train for and how you go about doing so and how much time you dedicate to it.
  - dpark 10y ago
    I think that's largely luck. Most people who go into engineering do so because they have some "natural aptitude". That's luck of the draw. Conversely, I'd say that studying history is also largely (bad) luck. A kid has some interest in it and they're too shortsighted to understand what it means to carry tens of thousands of dollars in nondischargable debt while working a low paying job because history degrees are not in demand. Of course, it's largely luck whether a person even goes to college. If you're born upper middle income or higher, college is basically a certainty. If you're born low income, it's much less likely.
    - CuriouslyC 10y ago
      I think Luck is something people who've stopped struggling against mediocrity lean on so they don't have to feel bad. You have a huge degree of control over your life. I started in just about the worst position possible in this game, and now I make my own rules. I lived in a tent and got food stamps so I could afford to attend a community college. I studied whatever interested me, and I didn't decide on a specific track until I was about 120 units deep. I nearly lived in the library because I couldn't afford to buy textbooks. That isn't luck, that's determination. After college, I took several positions that paid shit, on the condition that they gave me a lot of free time, exposure to interesting new science and technology, and latitude in how I did my work. I used that free time to read scientific journal articles and practice my programming. That wasn't luck, it was an investment. Now I'm in the position of having almost total control over my work. I choose what I work on, how I contribute, and my work schedule. Beyond that, I'm nearly debt free - I had to take a 10 year mortgage to finance my house, but I'm going to pay that off several years early.
      - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
        Sure but there are fewer and fewer people like you.[1] If you take it that social mobility is actually declining what are we to take that to mean? That more now than in previous times have "stopped strugging against mediocrity"? I don't really buy that, I'd say that it's that they're unlucky. Political forces beyond their individual control have influenced their chances to build a better life. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-mobility-america/491240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...
        CuriouslyC 10y ago
        The problem isn't that social mobility is no longer possible. The problem is that the current social narrative for how you achieve that mobility is no longer accurate. You can march for 16 hours a day and never reach your destination if you're walking in the wrong direction. Unfortunately, most people blindly trust the social narrative. As a result, rather than step back and question their direction, they proceed in an unproductive manner. When things don't work out, rather than admit their chosen path was poor, they blame circumstances.
sharemywin 10y ago
One properly executed good idea aka - many, many hours of very hard work
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  That depends on how long it takes you to write up a patent application, then build and shop a prototype I suppose. You could earn 20 years of royalties at somewhere between 5 and 15% with a couple hundred total hours total investment. Of course, the subject matter knowledge required to come up with the invention will be higher, but from my perspective that part is fun.