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>You don't need IoT for any of those use cases. This is a shitty response. It's like telling the person who wants a better mousetrap to just live somewhere tha

>You don't need IoT for any of those use cases. This is a shitty response. It's like telling the person who wants a better mousetrap to just live somewhere that doesn't have mice. It might be a "solution" but it's not a good one. >You can do that locally with passive infrared sensors. So now you want me to purchase 10+ infrared sensors for throughout my small condo? And what happens when my pets set them off? what happens when I'm laying still on the couch? What happens when I'm taking a shower? I can just get a keypad? what happens when I want to change my keycode while I'm away for a week? What about the nice notification I get on my phone when someone opens a door or the garage door when I'm not home? What about the snapshot of the security camera I have sent to my phone every time someone enters the house when nobody is home? What about the routine which begins warming/cooling my house when i'm less than 15 minutes from home? Those aren't solutions, they are shitty workarounds that only work in a fraction of the situations. Just like most other "solutions" that attempt to act like every single thing is 100% possible without outside communication are.

mrob 10y ago
PIR sensors are reasonably cheap and have low power consumption. They could be battery powered and connected to a local low-power wireless network (transmitting only, and at low data rate), which would make installation easy. It wouldn't take much battery capacity to beat the expected lifespan of a IoT device. They're generally good at discriminating between humans and pets, but if a pet did trigger it the worst that would happen is you waste a little electricity or fuel as you give it some light or heat you didn't intend to. You stand to lose much more if somebody hacks your internet connected solution. And if you're laying still enough to avoid triggering a PIR sensor you're probably sleeping and want the light off. And most phones are not waterproof so they cannot be used in the shower, so IoT does no better there. I think it's unlikely that the IoT door lock features add enough security to make up for the increased attack surface compared to the local only version.
- Klathmon 10y ago
  The point is that my phone is with me, so If i'm in the shower, the phone isn't 300 miles away, so if the phone says it's home, it's significantly more reliable than an IR sensor which will say i'm not home because i was out of sight for 15 minutes in the shower (or perhaps sitting on the toilet for that time, during which all the lights in my house turn off, my PC powers down, my doors lock, my thermostat goes into "away" mode, the water heater goes into "vacation mode", etc...) I've had IR light switches before, not only do they have tons of false positives (I ended up removing it because I would roll over in bed and the lights would turn on at 1AM...), but they have a significant number of false negatives (I can't count the number of times i've had to stand up and wave at the damn thing like a crazy person to get it to turn the light on because it shut it off on me when i was sitting reading). I also have 2 of them as part of my "home automation" system, and they are mostly useless. You say they are good at telling people from pets, but my 2 small cats set them off about 30-50 times a day, and if I point them up to where they don't go off that often any more, they won't go off for people at that point. And like I said above, this isn't just "turns some lights on for a few minutes", this is turning the thermostat on/off, turning the water heater on/off, lights, locks, doors, tvs, computers, fans, speakers, etc... And they STILL don't solve the other issues. What about notifications when someone enters/leaves the house? What about pre-heating/cooling the house when i'm close to home? what about external camera access? what about the alerts about water leakage, or gas usage while i'm not home? or the notification that I left oven on? Why try to "reduce attack surface" of my door lock, when it's feet away from a window? I personally think a lock which sends a notification when used, or IoT devices which notify when used and nobody is home is magnitudes more "secure" than a dumb lock which will do nothing while all of my stuff is stolen. Telling me I don't need those things isn't a "solution", it's letting perfect be the enemy of good.

mrob 10y ago

PIR sensors are reasonably cheap and have low power consumption. They could be battery powered and connected to a local low-power wireless network (transmitting only, and at low data rate), which would make installation easy. It wouldn't take much battery capacity to beat the expected lifespan of a IoT device. They're generally good at discriminating between humans and pets, but if a pet did trigger it the worst that would happen is you waste a little electricity or fuel as you give it some light or heat you didn't intend to. You stand to lose much more if somebody hacks your internet connected solution. And if you're laying still enough to avoid triggering a PIR sensor you're probably sleeping and want the light off. And most phones are not waterproof so they cannot be used in the shower, so IoT does no better there. I think it's unlikely that the IoT door lock features add enough security to make up for the increased attack surface compared to the local only version.

Klathmon 10y ago
The point is that my phone is with me, so If i'm in the shower, the phone isn't 300 miles away, so if the phone says it's home, it's significantly more reliable than an IR sensor which will say i'm not home because i was out of sight for 15 minutes in the shower (or perhaps sitting on the toilet for that time, during which all the lights in my house turn off, my PC powers down, my doors lock, my thermostat goes into "away" mode, the water heater goes into "vacation mode", etc...) I've had IR light switches before, not only do they have tons of false positives (I ended up removing it because I would roll over in bed and the lights would turn on at 1AM...), but they have a significant number of false negatives (I can't count the number of times i've had to stand up and wave at the damn thing like a crazy person to get it to turn the light on because it shut it off on me when i was sitting reading). I also have 2 of them as part of my "home automation" system, and they are mostly useless. You say they are good at telling people from pets, but my 2 small cats set them off about 30-50 times a day, and if I point them up to where they don't go off that often any more, they won't go off for people at that point. And like I said above, this isn't just "turns some lights on for a few minutes", this is turning the thermostat on/off, turning the water heater on/off, lights, locks, doors, tvs, computers, fans, speakers, etc... And they STILL don't solve the other issues. What about notifications when someone enters/leaves the house? What about pre-heating/cooling the house when i'm close to home? what about external camera access? what about the alerts about water leakage, or gas usage while i'm not home? or the notification that I left oven on? Why try to "reduce attack surface" of my door lock, when it's feet away from a window? I personally think a lock which sends a notification when used, or IoT devices which notify when used and nobody is home is magnitudes more "secure" than a dumb lock which will do nothing while all of my stuff is stolen. Telling me I don't need those things isn't a "solution", it's letting perfect be the enemy of good.