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Everybody says that the big draw to San Francisco is the weather. True, it can be pretty nice at times. But it can also be pretty miserable. I tuned out

by wooster 16y ago

Everybody says that the big draw to San Francisco is the weather. True, it can be pretty nice at times. But it can also be pretty miserable. I tuned out a bit after reading this. San Francisco has terrible weather compared to Silicon Valley, and someone who doesn't know the distinction between the two cannot, in my opinion, be taken seriously when sounding the death knell of the entire region. Paul Graham said it best, “Silicon Valley is soul-crushing suburban sprawl.” I lived in Silicon Valley for 7 years and didn't find it to be particularly soul-crushing. It's a nice place to spend some time. It's a very nice place to raise a family, if you have one (I don't). It's great that startups are springing up all over the world, but that doesn't mean Silicon Valley is dead. Silicon Valley doesn't have to lose for others to succeed.

ardit33 16y ago
oh, yeah. Well I live currently in Mountain View, and I find one of the most boring places in earth (SunnyVale and Cupertino are worse), if you are a single guy. Just saying. The 20s are ment to have fun, get laid, drink booze, write some code, then go out again. You wont be 20some again, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy life (and start something at the same time). In here you are forced to live a suburbian boring life, even though you don't have kids. If you are married and have kids, you probably don't have any time anyway, so boring is ok. Everytime I go to work, I always think: Sigh, this place has such a great weather, but unfortunately it is wasted with this boring sprawling burbs.
- enjo 16y ago
  You'll be shocked when you turn 30 that you can do all of those things in your 30's (and I suspect your 40's, 50's, and on...) :)
  - sandGorgon 16y ago
    thank you!
- houseabsolute 16y ago
  It is what you make it. I know plenty of people in the area who seem to have a good amount of fun. But it's always possible to go live in the city if you find the hard life too difficult to find in the valley. But an attitude that dwells on thoughts like ". . . but unfortunately it is wasted with this boring sprawling burbs" could probably suck the life right out of almost any experience.
- dgordon 16y ago
  "Just saying. The 20s are ment to have fun, get laid, drink booze, write some code, then go out again. You wont be 20some again, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy life (and start something at the same time)." And for those of us that have no interest in several of these things that are allegedly essential to "enjoying life" in one's 20s?
- luminary 16y ago
  I live in MTV. I'll buy you a beer. We should do a HN meetup (doesn't have to be startup-specific).
  - revicon 16y ago
    Some of us meet up at Molly Magees from time to time.
- kroger 16y ago
  You can always go to San Francisco when you feel bored. I lived in Menlo Park last year and did just that. But I think that the Bay area offers different kinds of fun things to do like hiking (have you been to black mountain? it's beautiful) and biking.
- jey 16y ago
  Yeah, Mountain View sucks, but that's easily fixed: just move to SF or Berkeley.
ghshephard 16y ago
Re: Weather Redwood City, Heart of the valley - perhaps the best weather in California. I've gone a couple years without ever feeling the need to turn on a heater or an air-conditioner (not that anyone owns one of those in RWC). On the flip side, I've almost been chilled to the point of hypothermia just 50 minutes north in the City, on what was supposed to be a sunny _summer_ afternoon. It's true - the Bay Area has (extreme) micro-climates. If you don't like Hot or Cold, then move to a micro-climate that has (relatively) few of those days. Re: Silicon Valley - Perhaps I'm biased because I moved from Vancouver, which has no end of interesting neighborhoods, city blocks, and views - but I do find most of South-San-Francisco all the way down to San Jose to be pretty uninspiring. I've been here for 14 years, and it is depressingly sprawlesque. With all that said, it has the greatest density of _interesting_ hi-tech jobs in the world, with pretty awesome challenges, and in a safe, clean, well serviced lifestyle if you choose to live on the right side of the right community.
- tlrobinson 16y ago
  FYI, Redwood City's motto is "Climate Best By Government Test", no joke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwood_City,_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwood_City,_California That said, I've lived up and down the West Coast and Southern California's weather beats anywhere else, hands down. But I suppose weather quality is subjective. I'm willing to put up with a few hot weeks and a few rainy weeks a year for nearly perfect weather 3/4 of the year.
  - jackfoxy 16y ago
    I grew up in Belmont (borders RWC and has an awful micro climate in the hills) and went to college in Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara's weather is even better than RWC. I suppose the city fathers never felt the need to advertise it.
dejb 16y ago
So you thought the central argument was about the weather? Really? It does seem that a lot of people agreed with you. Getting a geographic breakdown by voter/region would be fascinating. Anyway I think we all now know that (for better or worse) the term 'Dead' in this context means something like 'predicted by the author to diminish in dominance' as in PG's 'Microsoft is Dead'.
- hga 16y ago
  Except if that was true, in the sense that PG used in that essay, we wouldn't be talking about Silicon Valley at all. Instead, it's absolutely central to all of these discussions, they're all about how area X is a, the, or a potential new Silicon Valley or how the latter is potentially losing its dominance. It's not simply irrelevant like Microsoft, a company you no longer measure yourself against (except on gross financial terms, e.g. Apple), worry will destroy you, etc. In this space of web based startups, the only worries about Microsoft are WRT accommodating their browsers.
d_r 16y ago
Merits of the article aside, I'll have to agree with this. Hopefully not offending anyone here, but I often find myself driving down 101 and looking at lifeless office complexes with little to no charm. Yes, the weather is great, but this area is too spread out. There's also very little here as far as places to walk around, not much to do at night if you're past the drinking stage... Have you ever seen Hong Kong? or even New York? We'll never have that here because people value suburbia. Does this mean that all the talented minds here also enjoy suburbia, or that they're only here because of amazing opportunities that brought them in, and loathe suburbia as much as I do?
- friendstock 16y ago
  Yes I think THAT was the point of the article. Having lived in the bay area (both in sunny suburbia and shady SOMA) for many years, I really appreciate living now in an Asian city with safe streets, excellent public transit, busy nightlife, and a 7-11 or Familymart on every block.

by wooster 16y ago

ardit33 16y ago

oh, yeah. Well I live currently in Mountain View, and I find one of the most boring places in earth (SunnyVale and Cupertino are worse), if you are a single guy. Just saying. The 20s are ment to have fun, get laid, drink booze, write some code, then go out again. You wont be 20some again, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy life (and start something at the same time). In here you are forced to live a suburbian boring life, even though you don't have kids. If you are married and have kids, you probably don't have any time anyway, so boring is ok. Everytime I go to work, I always think: Sigh, this place has such a great weather, but unfortunately it is wasted with this boring sprawling burbs.

enjo 16y ago
You'll be shocked when you turn 30 that you can do all of those things in your 30's (and I suspect your 40's, 50's, and on...) :)
- sandGorgon 16y ago
  thank you!
houseabsolute 16y ago
It is what you make it. I know plenty of people in the area who seem to have a good amount of fun. But it's always possible to go live in the city if you find the hard life too difficult to find in the valley. But an attitude that dwells on thoughts like ". . . but unfortunately it is wasted with this boring sprawling burbs" could probably suck the life right out of almost any experience.
dgordon 16y ago
"Just saying. The 20s are ment to have fun, get laid, drink booze, write some code, then go out again. You wont be 20some again, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to enjoy life (and start something at the same time)." And for those of us that have no interest in several of these things that are allegedly essential to "enjoying life" in one's 20s?
luminary 16y ago
I live in MTV. I'll buy you a beer. We should do a HN meetup (doesn't have to be startup-specific).
- revicon 16y ago
  Some of us meet up at Molly Magees from time to time.
kroger 16y ago
You can always go to San Francisco when you feel bored. I lived in Menlo Park last year and did just that. But I think that the Bay area offers different kinds of fun things to do like hiking (have you been to black mountain? it's beautiful) and biking.
jey 16y ago
Yeah, Mountain View sucks, but that's easily fixed: just move to SF or Berkeley.

ghshephard 16y ago

Re: Weather Redwood City, Heart of the valley - perhaps the best weather in California. I've gone a couple years without ever feeling the need to turn on a heater or an air-conditioner (not that anyone owns one of those in RWC). On the flip side, I've almost been chilled to the point of hypothermia just 50 minutes north in the City, on what was supposed to be a sunny _summer_ afternoon. It's true - the Bay Area has (extreme) micro-climates. If you don't like Hot or Cold, then move to a micro-climate that has (relatively) few of those days. Re: Silicon Valley - Perhaps I'm biased because I moved from Vancouver, which has no end of interesting neighborhoods, city blocks, and views - but I do find most of South-San-Francisco all the way down to San Jose to be pretty uninspiring. I've been here for 14 years, and it is depressingly sprawlesque. With all that said, it has the greatest density of _interesting_ hi-tech jobs in the world, with pretty awesome challenges, and in a safe, clean, well serviced lifestyle if you choose to live on the right side of the right community.

tlrobinson 16y ago
FYI, Redwood City's motto is "Climate Best By Government Test", no joke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwood_City,_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwood_City,_California That said, I've lived up and down the West Coast and Southern California's weather beats anywhere else, hands down. But I suppose weather quality is subjective. I'm willing to put up with a few hot weeks and a few rainy weeks a year for nearly perfect weather 3/4 of the year.
- jackfoxy 16y ago
  I grew up in Belmont (borders RWC and has an awful micro climate in the hills) and went to college in Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara's weather is even better than RWC. I suppose the city fathers never felt the need to advertise it.

dejb 16y ago

So you thought the central argument was about the weather? Really? It does seem that a lot of people agreed with you. Getting a geographic breakdown by voter/region would be fascinating. Anyway I think we all now know that (for better or worse) the term 'Dead' in this context means something like 'predicted by the author to diminish in dominance' as in PG's 'Microsoft is Dead'.

hga 16y ago
Except if that was true, in the sense that PG used in that essay, we wouldn't be talking about Silicon Valley at all. Instead, it's absolutely central to all of these discussions, they're all about how area X is a, the, or a potential new Silicon Valley or how the latter is potentially losing its dominance. It's not simply irrelevant like Microsoft, a company you no longer measure yourself against (except on gross financial terms, e.g. Apple), worry will destroy you, etc. In this space of web based startups, the only worries about Microsoft are WRT accommodating their browsers.

d_r 16y ago

Merits of the article aside, I'll have to agree with this. Hopefully not offending anyone here, but I often find myself driving down 101 and looking at lifeless office complexes with little to no charm. Yes, the weather is great, but this area is too spread out. There's also very little here as far as places to walk around, not much to do at night if you're past the drinking stage... Have you ever seen Hong Kong? or even New York? We'll never have that here because people value suburbia. Does this mean that all the talented minds here also enjoy suburbia, or that they're only here because of amazing opportunities that brought them in, and loathe suburbia as much as I do?

friendstock 16y ago
Yes I think THAT was the point of the article. Having lived in the bay area (both in sunny suburbia and shady SOMA) for many years, I really appreciate living now in an Asian city with safe streets, excellent public transit, busy nightlife, and a 7-11 or Familymart on every block.