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Offensive!? You're of course free to get offended, but pointing out that flying pollutes a lot relative to the proposed limits is certainly valid. I think the

Offensive!? You're of course free to get offended, but pointing out that flying pollutes a lot relative to the proposed limits is certainly valid. I think the point is that there is an opportunity to take personal responsibility here. Why wait for government? Using a couple of your examples, buying less stuff made in China would go a long way.

hobs 10y ago
Because collective action is the only way to make a dent in multinational corporations that poison the environment? While changing the agreement and raising awareness is good, its basically rearranging the deck chairs on the titantic. Do you know how many "upright citizens" I know who dont shop at wallmart? All my friends, family, and people I work with. And how's wallmart doing economically right now? Even a decently large group of citizens taking action has minimal impact on the global scale. Either convince the governments of the world or expect the slide to continue at an ever increasing pace.
- lhopki01 10y ago
  Do you accept that even if governments do take action every person will still need to live within a carbon allowance or else global warming will still happen? If so even if you convince governments you'll still have to fly less and live in smaller houses and eat more locally sourced food.
milesrout 10y ago
Taking 'personal responsibility' does nothing. I'm not going to forgo travelling overseas from NZ once every few years because some American thinks I'm 'using up my carbon budget'. It's not my personal fucking responsibility. Its yours. Your country is the one ruining the environment, backing out of carbon treaties, polluting the world. It's you, not me. NZ has a dairy industry, yes, but I don't vote for parties that support it. Nobody is saying you should 'wait for government'. Don't 'wait' for anything. Do. Change the government, push government in the direction you want it to go in. You know what would go much further than 'buying less stuff made in China'? Not wasting so much fuel shipping the absurd quantity of stuff you Americans consume on a day-to-day basis around your enormous country.
- sctb 10y ago
  Please stop violating the guidelines. We've already asked you not to comment uncivilly or spark flamewars.

hobs 10y ago

Because collective action is the only way to make a dent in multinational corporations that poison the environment? While changing the agreement and raising awareness is good, its basically rearranging the deck chairs on the titantic. Do you know how many "upright citizens" I know who dont shop at wallmart? All my friends, family, and people I work with. And how's wallmart doing economically right now? Even a decently large group of citizens taking action has minimal impact on the global scale. Either convince the governments of the world or expect the slide to continue at an ever increasing pace.

lhopki01 10y ago
Do you accept that even if governments do take action every person will still need to live within a carbon allowance or else global warming will still happen? If so even if you convince governments you'll still have to fly less and live in smaller houses and eat more locally sourced food.

milesrout 10y ago

Taking 'personal responsibility' does nothing. I'm not going to forgo travelling overseas from NZ once every few years because some American thinks I'm 'using up my carbon budget'. It's not my personal fucking responsibility. Its yours. Your country is the one ruining the environment, backing out of carbon treaties, polluting the world. It's you, not me. NZ has a dairy industry, yes, but I don't vote for parties that support it. Nobody is saying you should 'wait for government'. Don't 'wait' for anything. Do. Change the government, push government in the direction you want it to go in. You know what would go much further than 'buying less stuff made in China'? Not wasting so much fuel shipping the absurd quantity of stuff you Americans consume on a day-to-day basis around your enormous country.

sctb 10y ago
Please stop violating the guidelines. We've already asked you not to comment uncivilly or spark flamewars.