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>Don't try to bullshit us. Us? Who is "us"? Why are you trying to shout down an opposing view? You want prefer the echo chamber? >Replacing a fuel pump is

>Don't try to bullshit us. Us? Who is "us"? Why are you trying to shout down an opposing view? You want prefer the echo chamber? >Replacing a fuel pump is not going to turn a tractor into a rampaging death machine. Am I going to be able to replace whatever parts I want on my Model 3? Because "we" certainly love that company here!

tobltobs 10y ago
Your comparison to Tesla doesn't get better just by repeating it a few times. If your Tesla breaks down you wont have any problem to get a comparable replacement car. Much luck to get a replacement for your tractor during harvest season.
- bigtimeidiot 10y ago
  >Your comparison to Tesla doesn't get better just by repeating it a few times Your hand-waving also does precisely zero. >If your Tesla breaks down you wont have any problem to get a comparable replacement car What does this have to do with anything? I want to work on something I bought; isn't that what we're arguing about? The availability of a replacement is a straw man. Why are you apologizing for other companies that do precisely what is being described in the article?
  - RealityVoid 10y ago
    While I think you have a valid point about Tesla's availability, this is a "Tu Coque". I mean, regardless if Tesla does/does not do it, this is considered bad and bringing Tesla in the discussion does not change nor challenge the validity of this view, only, maybe, reveal a little hypocrisy or favoritism in the audience.
    - dandelion_lover 10y ago
      >While I think you have a valid point about Tesla's availability, this is a "Tu Coque". I mean, regardless if Tesla does/does not do it, this is considered bad aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    - bigtimeidiot 10y ago
      >reveal a little hypocrisy or favoritism in the audience. Precisely my point in bringing it up. Someone, who apparently worked at John Deere, offers an opposing view and some clown shouts him down like a bully. Why should anyone listen to the arguments of hypocrites? If you're against this sort of thing, you're against it.
      - RealityVoid 10y ago
        > Why should anyone listen to the arguments of hypocrites? Because even though they might be hypocrites the may offer good arguments. And while I understand the point of the JD employee myself (I also work writing software for vehicles) and I think he speaks honestly, I think that goods should be easy to fix and all the means fo this should be at the disposal of whoever needs it. Reconciling safety and the need for open software (because this is what is basically boils down to), right to repair and right to modify is a real issue. One that should not be invalidated necessarily by personal traits of a subset of supporters of either side.
  - tobltobs 10y ago
    > I want to work on something I bought; isn't that what we're arguing about? This might be what you are arguing about, but then you are in the wrong discussion. Farmers complain that they have to wait for an authorized JD mechanic to fix even the most simple stuff. And during harvest time they just can't wait.
    - bigtimeidiot 10y ago
      >but then you are in the wrong discussion Maybe you are. >Farmers complain that they have to wait for an authorized JD mechanic to fix even the most simple stuff Actually, it says in the article that they can fix simple things.
callmeal 10y ago
Yes - you can change the windshield wipers, replace the fluid, change the tires. You may not be able to replace the battery or any of the high voltage electrical system yet. Although if you are experienced in high-voltage maintenance, you may be able too. See this[1] description of one fix that your "software" would prevent. [1] http://imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp http://imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp
- bigtimeidiot 10y ago
  >Yes - you can change the windshield wipers, replace the fluid, change the tires. Are you unable to change these components on your John Deere vehicle? FTA: ""Maybe a gasket or something you can fix, but everything else is computer controlled and so if it breaks down I'm really in a bad spot,"

tobltobs 10y ago

Your comparison to Tesla doesn't get better just by repeating it a few times. If your Tesla breaks down you wont have any problem to get a comparable replacement car. Much luck to get a replacement for your tractor during harvest season.

bigtimeidiot 10y ago
>Your comparison to Tesla doesn't get better just by repeating it a few times Your hand-waving also does precisely zero. >If your Tesla breaks down you wont have any problem to get a comparable replacement car What does this have to do with anything? I want to work on something I bought; isn't that what we're arguing about? The availability of a replacement is a straw man. Why are you apologizing for other companies that do precisely what is being described in the article?
- RealityVoid 10y ago
  While I think you have a valid point about Tesla's availability, this is a "Tu Coque". I mean, regardless if Tesla does/does not do it, this is considered bad and bringing Tesla in the discussion does not change nor challenge the validity of this view, only, maybe, reveal a little hypocrisy or favoritism in the audience.
  - dandelion_lover 10y ago
    >While I think you have a valid point about Tesla's availability, this is a "Tu Coque". I mean, regardless if Tesla does/does not do it, this is considered bad aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - bigtimeidiot 10y ago
    >reveal a little hypocrisy or favoritism in the audience. Precisely my point in bringing it up. Someone, who apparently worked at John Deere, offers an opposing view and some clown shouts him down like a bully. Why should anyone listen to the arguments of hypocrites? If you're against this sort of thing, you're against it.
    - RealityVoid 10y ago
      > Why should anyone listen to the arguments of hypocrites? Because even though they might be hypocrites the may offer good arguments. And while I understand the point of the JD employee myself (I also work writing software for vehicles) and I think he speaks honestly, I think that goods should be easy to fix and all the means fo this should be at the disposal of whoever needs it. Reconciling safety and the need for open software (because this is what is basically boils down to), right to repair and right to modify is a real issue. One that should not be invalidated necessarily by personal traits of a subset of supporters of either side.
- tobltobs 10y ago
  > I want to work on something I bought; isn't that what we're arguing about? This might be what you are arguing about, but then you are in the wrong discussion. Farmers complain that they have to wait for an authorized JD mechanic to fix even the most simple stuff. And during harvest time they just can't wait.
  - bigtimeidiot 10y ago
    >but then you are in the wrong discussion Maybe you are. >Farmers complain that they have to wait for an authorized JD mechanic to fix even the most simple stuff Actually, it says in the article that they can fix simple things.

callmeal 10y ago

Yes - you can change the windshield wipers, replace the fluid, change the tires. You may not be able to replace the battery or any of the high voltage electrical system yet. Although if you are experienced in high-voltage maintenance, you may be able too. See this[1] description of one fix that your "software" would prevent. [1] http://imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp http://imgur.com/gallery/j8Bcp

bigtimeidiot 10y ago
>Yes - you can change the windshield wipers, replace the fluid, change the tires. Are you unable to change these components on your John Deere vehicle? FTA: ""Maybe a gasket or something you can fix, but everything else is computer controlled and so if it breaks down I'm really in a bad spot,"