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Not if we're talking about advances in textured vegetable protein. When I read "fake meat" I take it to mean that it's not animal derived. Otherwise it'd just b

by qubyte 9y ago

Not if we're talking about advances in textured vegetable protein. When I read "fake meat" I take it to mean that it's not animal derived. Otherwise it'd just be meat.

ikurei 9y ago
Still, we can do something about it right now. We may need meat, but we don't need meat in every meal; if we reduced the consumption of meat, we could conceivably switch to more expensive, less efficient, more humane ways to grow animals. If you can afford it, you can also only buy meat from non-intensive farming. Or stop eating meat all together. I just don't think it's morally right to wait for a solution that may not ever come, or not for a long time. I eat veggie fake-meat often, and sometimes it's great, but it's not close to real meat and I don't know that it'll ever be accepted by most of the population.
- qubyte 9y ago
  I absolutely agree. Reducing consumption is a win on pretty much every front. Another thing to do is diversify what is eaten. Have some (sustainably sourced) fish or shell fish a couple of days a week.
- jshevek 9y ago
  "We may need meat, but we don't need meat in every meal" Is it still a common belief that we 'need meat'? I thought it was well established that humans in normal health do not _need_ meat to thrive - especially with our current technology and industry. We can easily meet all of our nutritional needs without any animal flesh.
  - ikurei 9y ago
    I agree we don't need to eat meat, and I'm a vegetarian, but I'm around... 80% sure. I'd rather use the less-strong statement I need to make a point. It is still a common belief that not eating meat is in some way less healthy, because plants have lower-quality proteins.
- kcanini 9y ago
  > We may need meat ProTip: we don't need meat.
mjevans 9y ago
What would you consider synthetically produced 'meat' that wasn't part of an animal? Are there any other salient variables for classification which come to mind? In my opinion, structured growth of 'muscle tissue' disconnected from any animal is still "fake meat". Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, it is either still science fiction or too expensive (otherwise I'd have heard about it from places that aren't scifi).
- freeone3000 9y ago
  http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/08/here-it-comes-375000-lab-grown-beef-burger http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/08/here-it-comes-375000-... Once we solve the minor engineering issues, we're good.
kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
The fake meat of the future will not be just sophisticated pressed tofu but rather a manufactured protein more closely simulating the original animal variety.
logfromblammo 9y ago
Imitation meat would be a protein altered to resemble the meat of a particular animal. This is not necessarily vegetarian, as insect protein might be altered to resemble beef. Certain types could have problems with allergens. Cultured meat would be grown from animal cells without developing an entire, independently viable animal. This is what "vat-grown" meat would be. Synthetic meat would be processed polymerized amino acids that are chemically and structurally similar to animal meat. This is the holy grail of meat substitutes for vegans. No living thing of any kind is killed, molested, or even inconvenienced in its manufacture (provided you don't look too closely at where the amino acids came from). "Fake meat" would be imitation or synthetic. Cultured meat wouldn't exactly qualify as "real meat" to me, but it isn't quite "fake meat", either.
- spraak 9y ago
  > This is the holy grail of meat substitutes for vegans. Hi, vegan here! I already get all this from plants. > No living thing of any kind is killed, molested, or even inconvenienced in its manufacture (provided you don't look too closely at where the amino acids came from). Where do they come from, then? There is already enough plant diversity to not need to manufacture cells this way. In fact, fermentation of foods brings us many nutritional gifts, and I do actually kill these organisms when I eat them, but I'm ok with killing some yeasts over cows (grey line, I know! :)
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Amino acids, being chemicals with a particular arrangement of atoms, are completely untraceable if they are pure. As such, they could come from full organic synthesis from ethane feedstock, or from cultured microorganisms, or from plant protein, or from animal protein. They could by produced as a by-product of some other industry. If the company producing the synthetic meat is not particularly cautious with respect to sources, the vegan pedigree of its product could be questioned. From the HN conversations about Soylent and Soylent-like products, I have been made aware of religiously-motivated vegans that even feel vaguely guilty about having to kill plants for their food. Those and the vegans motivated by supposed health benefits would not give a fig about the "meatiness" of any synthetic meat, caring more about its nutritional qualities. Those motivated by ethics would likely only care insofar as the existence of a full-synthetic meat could help encourage others to give up animal-harvested meats. If you don't proselytize veganism, you wouldn't care (nor should you). From my own shallow study of nutrition, the height of my bar for going vegan is the chicken egg. If anyone wants me to stop eating animal products, they must necessarily produce something of equal nutritional convenience to a chicken egg, at a lower price. By my "holy grail" statement, I meat that specifically for proselytizing ethical vegans (i.e. PETA members), as an "Aha! With this, the meat-eaters can no longer argue in favor of their destructive lifestyles based on nutrition or culinary experience!"

by qubyte 9y ago

Not if we're talking about advances in textured vegetable protein. When I read "fake meat" I take it to mean that it's not animal derived. Otherwise it'd just be meat.

ikurei 9y ago

Still, we can do something about it right now. We may need meat, but we don't need meat in every meal; if we reduced the consumption of meat, we could conceivably switch to more expensive, less efficient, more humane ways to grow animals. If you can afford it, you can also only buy meat from non-intensive farming. Or stop eating meat all together. I just don't think it's morally right to wait for a solution that may not ever come, or not for a long time. I eat veggie fake-meat often, and sometimes it's great, but it's not close to real meat and I don't know that it'll ever be accepted by most of the population.

qubyte 9y ago
I absolutely agree. Reducing consumption is a win on pretty much every front. Another thing to do is diversify what is eaten. Have some (sustainably sourced) fish or shell fish a couple of days a week.
jshevek 9y ago
"We may need meat, but we don't need meat in every meal" Is it still a common belief that we 'need meat'? I thought it was well established that humans in normal health do not _need_ meat to thrive - especially with our current technology and industry. We can easily meet all of our nutritional needs without any animal flesh.
- ikurei 9y ago
  I agree we don't need to eat meat, and I'm a vegetarian, but I'm around... 80% sure. I'd rather use the less-strong statement I need to make a point. It is still a common belief that not eating meat is in some way less healthy, because plants have lower-quality proteins.
kcanini 9y ago
> We may need meat ProTip: we don't need meat.

mjevans 9y ago

What would you consider synthetically produced 'meat' that wasn't part of an animal? Are there any other salient variables for classification which come to mind? In my opinion, structured growth of 'muscle tissue' disconnected from any animal is still "fake meat". Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, it is either still science fiction or too expensive (otherwise I'd have heard about it from places that aren't scifi).

freeone3000 9y ago
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/08/here-it-comes-375000-lab-grown-beef-burger http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/08/here-it-comes-375000-... Once we solve the minor engineering issues, we're good.

kevin_thibedeau 9y ago

The fake meat of the future will not be just sophisticated pressed tofu but rather a manufactured protein more closely simulating the original animal variety.

logfromblammo 9y ago

Imitation meat would be a protein altered to resemble the meat of a particular animal. This is not necessarily vegetarian, as insect protein might be altered to resemble beef. Certain types could have problems with allergens. Cultured meat would be grown from animal cells without developing an entire, independently viable animal. This is what "vat-grown" meat would be. Synthetic meat would be processed polymerized amino acids that are chemically and structurally similar to animal meat. This is the holy grail of meat substitutes for vegans. No living thing of any kind is killed, molested, or even inconvenienced in its manufacture (provided you don't look too closely at where the amino acids came from). "Fake meat" would be imitation or synthetic. Cultured meat wouldn't exactly qualify as "real meat" to me, but it isn't quite "fake meat", either.

spraak 9y ago
> This is the holy grail of meat substitutes for vegans. Hi, vegan here! I already get all this from plants. > No living thing of any kind is killed, molested, or even inconvenienced in its manufacture (provided you don't look too closely at where the amino acids came from). Where do they come from, then? There is already enough plant diversity to not need to manufacture cells this way. In fact, fermentation of foods brings us many nutritional gifts, and I do actually kill these organisms when I eat them, but I'm ok with killing some yeasts over cows (grey line, I know! :)
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  Amino acids, being chemicals with a particular arrangement of atoms, are completely untraceable if they are pure. As such, they could come from full organic synthesis from ethane feedstock, or from cultured microorganisms, or from plant protein, or from animal protein. They could by produced as a by-product of some other industry. If the company producing the synthetic meat is not particularly cautious with respect to sources, the vegan pedigree of its product could be questioned. From the HN conversations about Soylent and Soylent-like products, I have been made aware of religiously-motivated vegans that even feel vaguely guilty about having to kill plants for their food. Those and the vegans motivated by supposed health benefits would not give a fig about the "meatiness" of any synthetic meat, caring more about its nutritional qualities. Those motivated by ethics would likely only care insofar as the existence of a full-synthetic meat could help encourage others to give up animal-harvested meats. If you don't proselytize veganism, you wouldn't care (nor should you). From my own shallow study of nutrition, the height of my bar for going vegan is the chicken egg. If anyone wants me to stop eating animal products, they must necessarily produce something of equal nutritional convenience to a chicken egg, at a lower price. By my "holy grail" statement, I meat that specifically for proselytizing ethical vegans (i.e. PETA members), as an "Aha! With this, the meat-eaters can no longer argue in favor of their destructive lifestyles based on nutrition or culinary experience!"