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I think microdosing LSD is 100% placebo and that we should stick to rationalism and science. Taking small doses of hallucinogens without clear proof and long te

I think microdosing LSD is 100% placebo and that we should stick to rationalism and science. Taking small doses of hallucinogens without clear proof and long term research is your choice, however, proving it has value seems incredibly difficult as there are so many biases involved.

andybak 10y ago
Fairly similar to the difficulties that surround proving the efficacy of antidepressants. > I think microdosing LSD is 100% placebo and that we should stick to rationalism and science. This is an interesting sentence because the first half and the second half of it directly contradict each other. I too believe in sticking to rationalism and science which surely forces me to disregard your opening statement?
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Yes it's badly worded, I should say I believe it's nearly impossible to draw conclusions due to the placebo effects, complexity of people's brains and the differences between subjects. I actually am pretty skeptical about anti-depressants personally and they seem very addictive/dependence inducing. I suppose it's better than people killing themselves but the way they are handed out seems almost abusive. I have never seen double blind IQ tests with microdosed LSD done.
  - beat 10y ago
    While hardly a "double blind IQ test", or a microdose, Ken Kesey described an interesting lab experience. Back when there was still academic research being done on psychedelics, he was part of an experiment group. One of the experiments being done on him was measuring his sense of time (the "time dilation" often reported by users). They would ask him to estimate one minute passing by, while they timed it. But before they did the time test, they took his pulse, and wrote the results where he could see them. So when they asked him to time one minute, he simply counted his pulse - presumably hitting his estimate more accurately than a "sober" person could. I think this particular incident says a lot about the difficulty of doing scientific research around perception, for something that so radically alters perception.
jbmorgado 10y ago
"I think microdosing LSD is 100% placebo and that we should stick to rationalism and science" Well, according to your own words you are not sticking to rationalism and science, you are actually letting your pre conceived notions about what's right and what's wrong dictate how you act without any scientific support.
herbst 10y ago
Try it. It's definitly not (only) placebo. I did it at work, coding on personal projects and with certain social events. Just a few times but each time was magic, I simply felt and acted like a better human being.
- misja111 10y ago
  I'm not denying how you felt, but how do you know it wasn't a placebo effect?
  - prodmerc 10y ago
    What if it was? It's all in our head anyway, so if it was a placebo effect, but a noticeable one for that person, with the trigger being that "I took LSD", then why not? When you're angry, but can calm down or feel happy because of a single thought, that can be called placebo as well, just one thought triggering a whole cascade in your brain. Sure, for life saving drugs, placebos should have no place, but for anything else - why not?
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Because LSD is a potentially harmful drug, especially because it's currently illegal to produce or own. It's a placebo effect that comes with some risk.
      - prodmerc 10y ago
        From what I read, it is harmful because it's illegal. Just like countless other drugs. You can't get a high purity sample from an advanced lab and have to trust random chemists who do it illegally. Pure LSD seems to be quite safe. Should probably ban alcohol and tobacco, since they're really risky, and refuse to re-legalize them unless everything else is legalized heh.
  - herbst 10y ago
    I did a lot of different stuff in my lifetime. I don't expect anything anymore and let things come as they come. I don't claim to always know a placebo but i am 100% certain this was real.
metaphorm 10y ago
this is how science is done, actually. James Fadiman is collecting data[0] (that's the plural of anecdote) so the useful knowledge gained by the self-experimenters isn't lost and the rest of us can benefit from it. were you under the impression that new knowledge must only be generated by studies approved by the federal government? [0] - https://sites.google.com/view/microdosingpsychedelics/home https://sites.google.com/view/microdosingpsychedelics/home

andybak 10y ago

Fairly similar to the difficulties that surround proving the efficacy of antidepressants. > I think microdosing LSD is 100% placebo and that we should stick to rationalism and science. This is an interesting sentence because the first half and the second half of it directly contradict each other. I too believe in sticking to rationalism and science which surely forces me to disregard your opening statement?

andy_ppp 10y ago
Yes it's badly worded, I should say I believe it's nearly impossible to draw conclusions due to the placebo effects, complexity of people's brains and the differences between subjects. I actually am pretty skeptical about anti-depressants personally and they seem very addictive/dependence inducing. I suppose it's better than people killing themselves but the way they are handed out seems almost abusive. I have never seen double blind IQ tests with microdosed LSD done.
- beat 10y ago
  While hardly a "double blind IQ test", or a microdose, Ken Kesey described an interesting lab experience. Back when there was still academic research being done on psychedelics, he was part of an experiment group. One of the experiments being done on him was measuring his sense of time (the "time dilation" often reported by users). They would ask him to estimate one minute passing by, while they timed it. But before they did the time test, they took his pulse, and wrote the results where he could see them. So when they asked him to time one minute, he simply counted his pulse - presumably hitting his estimate more accurately than a "sober" person could. I think this particular incident says a lot about the difficulty of doing scientific research around perception, for something that so radically alters perception.

jbmorgado 10y ago

"I think microdosing LSD is 100% placebo and that we should stick to rationalism and science" Well, according to your own words you are not sticking to rationalism and science, you are actually letting your pre conceived notions about what's right and what's wrong dictate how you act without any scientific support.

herbst 10y ago

Try it. It's definitly not (only) placebo. I did it at work, coding on personal projects and with certain social events. Just a few times but each time was magic, I simply felt and acted like a better human being.

misja111 10y ago
I'm not denying how you felt, but how do you know it wasn't a placebo effect?
- prodmerc 10y ago
  What if it was? It's all in our head anyway, so if it was a placebo effect, but a noticeable one for that person, with the trigger being that "I took LSD", then why not? When you're angry, but can calm down or feel happy because of a single thought, that can be called placebo as well, just one thought triggering a whole cascade in your brain. Sure, for life saving drugs, placebos should have no place, but for anything else - why not?
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Because LSD is a potentially harmful drug, especially because it's currently illegal to produce or own. It's a placebo effect that comes with some risk.
    - prodmerc 10y ago
      From what I read, it is harmful because it's illegal. Just like countless other drugs. You can't get a high purity sample from an advanced lab and have to trust random chemists who do it illegally. Pure LSD seems to be quite safe. Should probably ban alcohol and tobacco, since they're really risky, and refuse to re-legalize them unless everything else is legalized heh.
- herbst 10y ago
  I did a lot of different stuff in my lifetime. I don't expect anything anymore and let things come as they come. I don't claim to always know a placebo but i am 100% certain this was real.

metaphorm 10y ago

this is how science is done, actually. James Fadiman is collecting data[0] (that's the plural of anecdote) so the useful knowledge gained by the self-experimenters isn't lost and the rest of us can benefit from it. were you under the impression that new knowledge must only be generated by studies approved by the federal government? [0] - https://sites.google.com/view/microdosingpsychedelics/home https://sites.google.com/view/microdosingpsychedelics/home