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Everybody likes to feel taken advantage of. If I was a business owner or engineer that built systems this complex and you asked me to not lock it down, I'd cal

by arkis22 10y ago

Everybody likes to feel taken advantage of. If I was a business owner or engineer that built systems this complex and you asked me to not lock it down, I'd call you freaking crazy. These are very expensive and complex machines, and you want my competition or some farmer who has no idea what he's doing to access and modify it? No thank you. Google keeps proprietary code. And that's for auto complete...

michaelmrose 10y ago
You address two different issues here competition and users. In the case of users you have no right after sale to feel a right to control how your users make use of your product. Just because software and contracts give you two venues to potentially do so doesn't mean it would be rational to allow you to. The world is 99.99% users. On the second point, competition has always quite legally taken apart the competitors products to see how they tick. If you have something truly innovative you can file a patent, if not then you have nothing that deserves protection.
- arkis22 10y ago
  No, In this case I have complete right to control how my users make use of my product because we agreed to it. It might not be rational because I might lose to an open competitor, but that's a completely different subject. There's trade secrets at every company in existence that they don't share with their competition. They can't patent them, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve protection. Companies exist because they don't give up how they work to their competition...
  - michaelmrose 10y ago
    Properly we limit what you are allowed to contract away all the time. This isnt any different. You want to retain control see leasing. Regarding trade secrets you misunderstand them. Please see https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trade_secret https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trade_secret The Uniform Trade Secrets Act ("UTSA") defines a trade secret as: information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process, that derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to or readily ascertainable through appropriate means by other persons who might obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy There are two basic situations in which obtaining the use of a trade secret is illegal; where it is acquired through improper means, or where it involves a breach of confidence. Trade secrets may be obtained by lawful means such as independent discovery, reverse engineering, and inadvertent disclosure resulting from the trade secret holder's failure to take reasonable protective measures. Anything that can be gleaned from tearing your product to pieces that isn't suitable for patenting gets zero protection.
    - arkis22 10y ago
      I understand they don't get legal protection. That's not my point. My point is that companies don't just dump out information on how they operate. They protect their trade secrets, which as the definition you provided says, are worthy of protection. Thanks.
      - michaelmrose 10y ago
        I would argue that the consumers right to have access to a lot of that information is considered normal and is vastly more important that the companies need to protect it. Enough so that we ought to legally protect the consumer even at the expense of the company. After all there are more of us than them why shouldn't we protect ourselves?
        arkis22 10y ago
        The law you cited seems to do that. Companies have no right to stop consumers from purchasing goods that use their trade secrets without their consent.

by arkis22 10y ago

michaelmrose 10y ago

You address two different issues here competition and users. In the case of users you have no right after sale to feel a right to control how your users make use of your product. Just because software and contracts give you two venues to potentially do so doesn't mean it would be rational to allow you to. The world is 99.99% users. On the second point, competition has always quite legally taken apart the competitors products to see how they tick. If you have something truly innovative you can file a patent, if not then you have nothing that deserves protection.

arkis22 10y ago
No, In this case I have complete right to control how my users make use of my product because we agreed to it. It might not be rational because I might lose to an open competitor, but that's a completely different subject. There's trade secrets at every company in existence that they don't share with their competition. They can't patent them, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve protection. Companies exist because they don't give up how they work to their competition...
- michaelmrose 10y ago
  Properly we limit what you are allowed to contract away all the time. This isnt any different. You want to retain control see leasing. Regarding trade secrets you misunderstand them. Please see https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trade_secret https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trade_secret The Uniform Trade Secrets Act ("UTSA") defines a trade secret as: information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process, that derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to or readily ascertainable through appropriate means by other persons who might obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy There are two basic situations in which obtaining the use of a trade secret is illegal; where it is acquired through improper means, or where it involves a breach of confidence. Trade secrets may be obtained by lawful means such as independent discovery, reverse engineering, and inadvertent disclosure resulting from the trade secret holder's failure to take reasonable protective measures. Anything that can be gleaned from tearing your product to pieces that isn't suitable for patenting gets zero protection.
  - arkis22 10y ago
    I understand they don't get legal protection. That's not my point. My point is that companies don't just dump out information on how they operate. They protect their trade secrets, which as the definition you provided says, are worthy of protection. Thanks.
    - michaelmrose 10y ago
      I would argue that the consumers right to have access to a lot of that information is considered normal and is vastly more important that the companies need to protect it. Enough so that we ought to legally protect the consumer even at the expense of the company. After all there are more of us than them why shouldn't we protect ourselves?
      - arkis22 10y ago
        The law you cited seems to do that. Companies have no right to stop consumers from purchasing goods that use their trade secrets without their consent.