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800Hz PWM can cause nausea? Is there any objective research supporting this? I haven't heard of anyone doing simple blind testing or controlling for other fac

800Hz PWM can cause nausea? Is there any objective research supporting this? I haven't heard of anyone doing simple blind testing or controlling for other factors.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Wouldn't that make one unable to basically function in our world, given that a lot of things, even most basic LEDs, are PWM-driven, and not necessarily at very high frequencies?
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  I believe you're thinking of the pixel refresh rate, where 144hz is about the best you'll get and 60hz is normal, whereas PWM is used in the backlight and the frequency is indeed in the khz.
  - boose_e 10y ago
    You can get at least 240hz if you're willing to pay. http://www.benq.us/product/gaminggears/xl2540 http://www.benq.us/product/gaminggears/xl2540
  - dahauns 10y ago
    I'm afraid he does indeed talk about PWM. Sadly, lots of LED fixtures and displays (especially in laptops) still have atrociously low PWM frequencies...
    - kuschku 10y ago
      60Hz PWM wouldn't even work in laptops – you’d have, at 60Hz refresh rate, only the following colors available: black, red, green, blue, yellow, magenta, cyan, white. As, for each frame, you could turn each pixel only either on or off. 8 colors isn’t exactly 16 million colors. To get 8-bit colors, with PWM, you need far higher refresh rates. For OLED, that’s 15.3 kHz minimum to get sRGB colors with PWM. If you only need to dim backlight, 4kHz is usually enough.
      - dahauns 10y ago
        Huh? I'm talking LED backlights and lamps that regulate brightness with PWM. No color generation involved here. And these can get really ugly: https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenovo-Ideapad-310-15ISK-Notebook.173278.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenovo-Ideapad-310-15ISK-...
        kuschku 10y ago
        WTF That’s all I can say about that. That said, you were mentioning laptop displays, and the topic was OLED, that’s why I was mentioning why for OLED 60Hz is basically impossible. And as the display of that Ideapad has around 50 brightness steps, you get a real refresh rate of about 1Hz. That’s insane. As mentioned, I’ve tried this with the LEDs I’m using to light my room, and below a few kHz I get nausea, and so does the rest of my family.

800Hz PWM can cause nausea? Is there any objective research supporting this? I haven't heard of anyone doing simple blind testing or controlling for other factors.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Wouldn't that make one unable to basically function in our world, given that a lot of things, even most basic LEDs, are PWM-driven, and not necessarily at very high frequencies?

Godel_unicode 10y ago
I believe you're thinking of the pixel refresh rate, where 144hz is about the best you'll get and 60hz is normal, whereas PWM is used in the backlight and the frequency is indeed in the khz.
- boose_e 10y ago
  You can get at least 240hz if you're willing to pay. http://www.benq.us/product/gaminggears/xl2540 http://www.benq.us/product/gaminggears/xl2540
- dahauns 10y ago
  I'm afraid he does indeed talk about PWM. Sadly, lots of LED fixtures and displays (especially in laptops) still have atrociously low PWM frequencies...
  - kuschku 10y ago
    60Hz PWM wouldn't even work in laptops – you’d have, at 60Hz refresh rate, only the following colors available: black, red, green, blue, yellow, magenta, cyan, white. As, for each frame, you could turn each pixel only either on or off. 8 colors isn’t exactly 16 million colors. To get 8-bit colors, with PWM, you need far higher refresh rates. For OLED, that’s 15.3 kHz minimum to get sRGB colors with PWM. If you only need to dim backlight, 4kHz is usually enough.
    - dahauns 10y ago
      Huh? I'm talking LED backlights and lamps that regulate brightness with PWM. No color generation involved here. And these can get really ugly: https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenovo-Ideapad-310-15ISK-Notebook.173278.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenovo-Ideapad-310-15ISK-...
      - kuschku 10y ago
        WTF That’s all I can say about that. That said, you were mentioning laptop displays, and the topic was OLED, that’s why I was mentioning why for OLED 60Hz is basically impossible. And as the display of that Ideapad has around 50 brightness steps, you get a real refresh rate of about 1Hz. That’s insane. As mentioned, I’ve tried this with the LEDs I’m using to light my room, and below a few kHz I get nausea, and so does the rest of my family.