4 ms·

I'm starting to wonder if these articles are driven by a PR firm paid by John Deere's competition. They're always about John Deere and only John Deere. Aside fr

by tbyehl 10y ago

I'm starting to wonder if these articles are driven by a PR firm paid by John Deere's competition. They're always about John Deere and only John Deere. Aside from the Motherboard / Vice article, they never provide any specifics about the maintenance or repair operations that farms are prevented from doing on their own. With the Vice article, 2 of the 3 things they mention are modifying the tractors to operate in ways the manufacturer did not intend which could result in damage.

ebbv 10y ago
I've had the same thought. It's such a niche issue and really it's incredibly standard for any kind of business hardware, which is what tractors are. Also nobody's being forced to buy new tractors, there's tons of old tractors still out and running and working every day. So why do these articles appear with such regularity? (To be clear I think that all software should be open source and vendors should charge for support, but that's beside the point here.)
- tmnvix 10y ago
  > Also nobody's being forced to buy new tractors, there's tons of old tractors still out and running and working every day. There are also fewer every day.
  - ebbv 10y ago
    It's true but I would wager independent farmers are more likely to repair and keep old tractors around, or buy used when they do have to buy one. I bet the biggest buyer of new tractors are the farming conglomerates, and I wonder if they're behind these articles. Trying to get a grass roots movement going to push John Deere to change these practices?
  - ekianjo 10y ago
    You'd be surprised how long old, robust vehicles live for. I don't have any clear data for tractors, but older trucks that can be repaired with minimum tooling get used and re-used in places in Africa, almost to no end.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      This is not so relevant for modern agriculture, but my family still has the Valmet 361D tractor my father bought in 1963. It runs as good as ever. The diesel engine needed to have the cylinder tubes replaced some 30 years ago, and other mechanical parts do wear out and are replaced, but this thing isn't going to be out of use because of software issues. It's too small to be very useful in modern farming, though.
    - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
      The only reason why things are scrapped is when the price of repairing starts to exceed the value of the product. In places where labor is cheaper and products are more expensive, you see more of a repair culture. Cars is one of those examples - if you've got some basic repair skills, you can keep a car running for a long time. Getting or making parts can be challenging, but not unsolvable. The problem of course is that a lot of work is done by garages or repairmen, who will charge an hourly rate relative to the standard of living here. or something. Ergo, if a repair costs $1000 for a car worth $1000 it's not worth it, if that same repair costs just $100 it is.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  You sure nobody is being forced to buy new ones? That would be true if new ones offer no competitive advantage. If there is an advantage, then farmers trying to increase output or reduce cost might have to go for new tractors.
tyingq 10y ago
John Deere has a crazy high market share overall...Close to 80%. And it goes up as you move up market to larger, more expensive models. I think it's just the same reason Google bashing is more prevalent than Bing bashing.
teuobk 10y ago
Based on some poking around, it appears that the focus is mainly on John Deere because it's mainly John Deere imposing these software restrictions. Relevant thread on The Combine Forum (because that's a thing, apparently): http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/31-technology/239314-whose-equipment-anyway.html http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/31-technology/239314-w...
- VonGuard 10y ago
  Yep. That's also because their software is crazy advanced. Basically automates the whole plowing and such. Big market differentiator.
aphextron 10y ago
>They're always about John Deere and only John Deere. Aside from the Motherboard / Vice article, they never provide any specifics about the maintenance or repair operations that farms are prevented from doing on their own. John Deere essentially is the entire market for these machines. Especially in the US.
- snuxoll 10y ago
  Case IH has a decent foothold in the US, not anywhere near John Deere but it's there. Unfortunately, they're pulling the same bullshit from what I can tell - it's to the point where farmers that aren't part of a co-op or running a large commercial operation where equipment is leased or replaced regularly it's impractical to use new equipment should it break down.
Nilzor 10y ago
I'd like to see some concrete examples as well. What kind of repairs are you unable to do?
Nilzor 10y ago
I'd like to see some concrete examples as well. What kind of repairs are you unable to do?
Nilzor 10y ago
I'd like to see some concrete examples as well. What kind of repairs are you unable to do?

by tbyehl 10y ago

ebbv 10y ago

I've had the same thought. It's such a niche issue and really it's incredibly standard for any kind of business hardware, which is what tractors are. Also nobody's being forced to buy new tractors, there's tons of old tractors still out and running and working every day. So why do these articles appear with such regularity? (To be clear I think that all software should be open source and vendors should charge for support, but that's beside the point here.)

tmnvix 10y ago
> Also nobody's being forced to buy new tractors, there's tons of old tractors still out and running and working every day. There are also fewer every day.
- ebbv 10y ago
  It's true but I would wager independent farmers are more likely to repair and keep old tractors around, or buy used when they do have to buy one. I bet the biggest buyer of new tractors are the farming conglomerates, and I wonder if they're behind these articles. Trying to get a grass roots movement going to push John Deere to change these practices?
- ekianjo 10y ago
  You'd be surprised how long old, robust vehicles live for. I don't have any clear data for tractors, but older trucks that can be repaired with minimum tooling get used and re-used in places in Africa, almost to no end.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    This is not so relevant for modern agriculture, but my family still has the Valmet 361D tractor my father bought in 1963. It runs as good as ever. The diesel engine needed to have the cylinder tubes replaced some 30 years ago, and other mechanical parts do wear out and are replaced, but this thing isn't going to be out of use because of software issues. It's too small to be very useful in modern farming, though.
  - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
    The only reason why things are scrapped is when the price of repairing starts to exceed the value of the product. In places where labor is cheaper and products are more expensive, you see more of a repair culture. Cars is one of those examples - if you've got some basic repair skills, you can keep a car running for a long time. Getting or making parts can be challenging, but not unsolvable. The problem of course is that a lot of work is done by garages or repairmen, who will charge an hourly rate relative to the standard of living here. or something. Ergo, if a repair costs $1000 for a car worth $1000 it's not worth it, if that same repair costs just $100 it is.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
You sure nobody is being forced to buy new ones? That would be true if new ones offer no competitive advantage. If there is an advantage, then farmers trying to increase output or reduce cost might have to go for new tractors.

tyingq 10y ago

John Deere has a crazy high market share overall...Close to 80%. And it goes up as you move up market to larger, more expensive models. I think it's just the same reason Google bashing is more prevalent than Bing bashing.

teuobk 10y ago

Based on some poking around, it appears that the focus is mainly on John Deere because it's mainly John Deere imposing these software restrictions. Relevant thread on The Combine Forum (because that's a thing, apparently): http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/31-technology/239314-whose-equipment-anyway.html http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/31-technology/239314-w...

VonGuard 10y ago
Yep. That's also because their software is crazy advanced. Basically automates the whole plowing and such. Big market differentiator.

aphextron 10y ago

>They're always about John Deere and only John Deere. Aside from the Motherboard / Vice article, they never provide any specifics about the maintenance or repair operations that farms are prevented from doing on their own. John Deere essentially is the entire market for these machines. Especially in the US.

snuxoll 10y ago
Case IH has a decent foothold in the US, not anywhere near John Deere but it's there. Unfortunately, they're pulling the same bullshit from what I can tell - it's to the point where farmers that aren't part of a co-op or running a large commercial operation where equipment is leased or replaced regularly it's impractical to use new equipment should it break down.

Nilzor 10y ago

I'd like to see some concrete examples as well. What kind of repairs are you unable to do?

Nilzor 10y ago

I'd like to see some concrete examples as well. What kind of repairs are you unable to do?

Nilzor 10y ago

I'd like to see some concrete examples as well. What kind of repairs are you unable to do?