4 ms·
tldr: The Dow 30 index is a bit absurd, however it's not as bad as it seems because of portfolio theory. The Dow 30 correlates highly with the S&P500 index ove
by obblekk 10y ago
tldr: The Dow 30 index is a bit absurd, however it's not as bad as it seems because of portfolio theory.
The Dow 30 correlates highly with the S&P500 index over medium-long periods of times (approx more than a month) [1]. This correlation is due to the fact that the 30 stocks that are selected are arbitrary but not random. They are selected by a human process which considers which companies contribute an important factor to the overall market [2]. Of course this process will be imperfect because it's vague, however it gets pretty close.
Don't forget, according to findings from portfolio theory, it's possible to replicate an index with only a small subset of the components of that index [3]. There's a whole field of work describing how to do this [search google for 'replicating index'],
In fact, replicating an index with a small number of stocks is exactly how 'smart trading' companies like wealthfront and bettermint make money. They find multiple non-overlapping subsets of the S&P500 which correlate strongly with S&P500 performance. Then they buy subset A, and if a loss is incurred in any month, they sell subset A and buy subset B. Since A and B are highly correlated with each other (ideally r>.99) and with the S&P500, the investor should expect the same return in the future, however can book a capital loss which creates a tax refund. Shifting from subset A to subset B avoids a wash-sale allowing the capital loss to be recognized [4].
The Dow 30 is certainly not an optimal index, however it's a case study in showing how selecting the "top" companies for some reasonable definition of "top" will earn a return approx. equal to the market (represented by S&P500) no matter the strategy (in this case price-weighting instead of mkt cap weighting can be considered a strategy).
The reason it's cited so widely is that there's a lot of historical data on the Dow 30, whereas every other index is less reported.
[1] Yahoo Finance comparison of Dow 30 vs. S&P500 chart http://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5EDJI#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%3D http://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5EDJI#eyJjb21wYXJpc29ucyI6Il...
[2] Dow 30 index is built and maintained by a subsidiary of News Corp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26P_Dow_Jones_Indices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26P_Dow_Jones_Indices.
[3] http://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/21038-how-to-run-an-index-fund-full-replication-vs-optimization.html http://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/21038-how-to-run-an-...
[4] http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/washsalerule.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/washsalerule.asp
- qwerty2020 10y agoAgree that the Dow 30 correlate reasonably well to the larger market, but it's the price-weighting piece I have a major problem with. You have to admit that the index would be better off weighing its components based on actual market value rather than share price. Fortunately, as the scatter plot shows, the under/over representation isn't that bad, but still ridiculous for the most widely cited market index nonetheless.
- teslacar 10y agoThat is what the S&P 500 does. No one stopping anyone from buying the individual stocks of the Dow in a market-cap weighted manner
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- loeg 10y agoThat isn't how the robo-advisors actually implement tax-loss harvesting. They just buy slightly different index funds.[0] E.g., VTI vs SCHB. VTI tracks the "CRSP US Total Market" index, while SCHB tracks the "DJ Broad US Market" index (note, this is not the same thing as the DJIA). Those indices are not comprised of disjoint subsets of the total stock market. Additionally, large index funds have enough capital to just buy all of the components (100s-1000s) without sampling. Thirty funds doesn't really do it justice. It can also miss out on big winners, which is where lots of growth comes from.[1] [0]: https://research.wealthfront.com/whitepapers/tax-loss-harvesting/ https://research.wealthfront.com/whitepapers/tax-loss-harves... [1]: http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/900/15st.htm http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/900/15st.htm
- obblekk 10y agoI believe this is not allowed by the IRS because ETFs tracking similar indices would be considered 'substantially identical', but I'm not sure [1]. If it is allowed, then you're right - this would be the most efficient way to implement tax loss harvesting. A wash sale occurs when you sell or trade stock or securities at a loss and within 30 days before or after the sale you: 1. Buy substantially identical stock or securities, 2. Acquire substantially identical stock or securities in a fully taxable trade, 3. Acquire a contract or option to buy substantially identical stock or securities, or 4. Acquire substantially identical stock for your individual retirement account (IRA) or Roth IRA. [1] https://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html#en_US_2016_publink100010601 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html#en_US_2016_p...