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See, your baseline requirements to me suggest a kid that has not only accepted the system but embraced it. They've gone all in on a dumb, onerous, do x, do y, d

See, your baseline requirements to me suggest a kid that has not only accepted the system but embraced it. They've gone all in on a dumb, onerous, do x, do y, do z to succeed worldview that's inherent in high school. Now maybe I'm just complaining about being a bad student, but I'm at least a little suspicious of students who have so willingly grabbed onto that system and don't see through it for the farce it is. I think it's more likely that you'll get excellent employees out of those people than it is that you'll find great creative passion. The time investment required for such marks certainly weighs against it.

fny 10y ago
Yet, the thresholds colleges created have encouraged bad behavior. My point is, contrary to popular belief, they dislike candidates who are onerous, do x, do y, do z sheep too. The validictorian my junior year in high school, for example, was one of those. Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I do think calling the system a farce is a rather extreme exaggeration. Imagine you want to be an engineer. In what way are the AP math and science courses inadequate preparations for what's to come in college? Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently?
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  I don't have anything useful to add, but those are good points.
- csa 10y ago
  Thank you for sharing all of your information -- it's nice to have another voice. > Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I wish people new how not uncommon this is. > Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently? This is a great and completely realistic example. It's tough to read good applications that have specific examples along these lines and say anything other than "wow, that's cool" (Note: there are also weak applications that have narratives like this, but that's a different issue -- it's not a crude formula).
csa 10y ago
> They've gone all in on a dumb, onerous, do x, do y, do z to succeed worldview that's inherent in high school. This is a half truth. They do things that typically are not that difficult for smart kids with good study skills like get good grades and get good SAT scores. > I'm at least a little suspicious of students who have so willingly grabbed onto that system and don't see through it for the farce it is The really smart and wise kids precisely see it for the farce that it is. As such, they do what it takes to get good grades and spend the rest of their time doing something that is actually interesting and/or productive. The idea that getting into an elite school is just a matter of grinding harder than the next person is just a misguided perception that works occasionally at best, and often for reasons that aren't stated. For example, a recruited athlete who can also grind academics is actually a strong candidate, but the key is the "recruited athlete" part rather than the "grind academics" part.

fny 10y ago

Yet, the thresholds colleges created have encouraged bad behavior. My point is, contrary to popular belief, they dislike candidates who are onerous, do x, do y, do z sheep too. The validictorian my junior year in high school, for example, was one of those. Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I do think calling the system a farce is a rather extreme exaggeration. Imagine you want to be an engineer. In what way are the AP math and science courses inadequate preparations for what's to come in college? Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently?

aaron-lebo 10y ago
I don't have anything useful to add, but those are good points.
csa 10y ago
Thank you for sharing all of your information -- it's nice to have another voice. > Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I wish people new how not uncommon this is. > Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently? This is a great and completely realistic example. It's tough to read good applications that have specific examples along these lines and say anything other than "wow, that's cool" (Note: there are also weak applications that have narratives like this, but that's a different issue -- it's not a crude formula).

csa 10y ago

> They've gone all in on a dumb, onerous, do x, do y, do z to succeed worldview that's inherent in high school. This is a half truth. They do things that typically are not that difficult for smart kids with good study skills like get good grades and get good SAT scores. > I'm at least a little suspicious of students who have so willingly grabbed onto that system and don't see through it for the farce it is The really smart and wise kids precisely see it for the farce that it is. As such, they do what it takes to get good grades and spend the rest of their time doing something that is actually interesting and/or productive. The idea that getting into an elite school is just a matter of grinding harder than the next person is just a misguided perception that works occasionally at best, and often for reasons that aren't stated. For example, a recruited athlete who can also grind academics is actually a strong candidate, but the key is the "recruited athlete" part rather than the "grind academics" part.