13 ms·

This is a big problem with the college admissions process. For my children I'm thinking of ignoring most of the stupid extra-curricular and extra AP class sugge

by rb808 10y ago

This is a big problem with the college admissions process. For my children I'm thinking of ignoring most of the stupid extra-curricular and extra AP class suggestions and concentrating on curiosity, teamwork and creativity. Play, travel, music, having fun with friends. They'll likely not get into Ivy league colleges but will be better and more successful in the long term.

iamthepieman 10y ago
I got into an ivy league college. I was homeschooled. I had no diploma, just a GED and good but not exceptional SAT scores. I wrote my entrance essay on digging in the dirt. Maybe I got lucky. I think that AP classes, and extracurricular activities are like being a Stanford grad when applying at a big tech company. They are a way for hiring managers/admissions officers to avoid bad outcomes not to optimize for good ones.
- raybb 10y ago
  digging in the dirt?
  - iamthepieman 10y ago
    I think it was about growing tomatoes in northern climates - about doing something for the challenge and beauty of the possibility of success and not just the final outcome which, in my case, was a handful of not quite ripe tomatoes.
fny 10y ago
I have a friend who works in admissions at a top 10. The stupid extra-curricular and AP class suggestions is not what they target. Admissions officers often see through this type of resume stuffing, and reluctantly use these candidates to fill in space after they selected their top candidates. Baseline requirements: near 1600 SAT and near 4.0 unweighted GPA taking the hardest classes. To the school, this proves you'll be able to survive at a top 10. Again, this is a requirement for consideration not admission. What gets you in: curiosity, creativity, and passion. The most compelling candidates have a narrative and a drive that speaks through the application. Say your kid loves botany, dance, travel, music, or engineering. Foster those interests and enable them to achieve in what they love. An admission officer would swoon over a kid with a passion for biology and husbandry over the directionless one who took every AP science class in the books and joined umpteen honor society.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  See, your baseline requirements to me suggest a kid that has not only accepted the system but embraced it. They've gone all in on a dumb, onerous, do x, do y, do z to succeed worldview that's inherent in high school. Now maybe I'm just complaining about being a bad student, but I'm at least a little suspicious of students who have so willingly grabbed onto that system and don't see through it for the farce it is. I think it's more likely that you'll get excellent employees out of those people than it is that you'll find great creative passion. The time investment required for such marks certainly weighs against it.
  - fny 10y ago
    Yet, the thresholds colleges created have encouraged bad behavior. My point is, contrary to popular belief, they dislike candidates who are onerous, do x, do y, do z sheep too. The validictorian my junior year in high school, for example, was one of those. Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I do think calling the system a farce is a rather extreme exaggeration. Imagine you want to be an engineer. In what way are the AP math and science courses inadequate preparations for what's to come in college? Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently?
    - aaron-lebo 10y ago
      I don't have anything useful to add, but those are good points.
    - csa 10y ago
      Thank you for sharing all of your information -- it's nice to have another voice. > Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I wish people new how not uncommon this is. > Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently? This is a great and completely realistic example. It's tough to read good applications that have specific examples along these lines and say anything other than "wow, that's cool" (Note: there are also weak applications that have narratives like this, but that's a different issue -- it's not a crude formula).
csa 10y ago
Your tack is much more likely to get them into an Ivy, and it's not even close. They will definitely need awesome grades in non-puff classes as well as a very high SAT score, but this is not terribly difficult for kids smart kids who have figured out the fundamentals of learning strategies. The jammed-packed extracurriculars and overweighted AP classes done to the exclusion of interesting things just makes them a clone of a bunch of other applicants that don't really stand out.

by rb808 10y ago

iamthepieman 10y ago

I got into an ivy league college. I was homeschooled. I had no diploma, just a GED and good but not exceptional SAT scores. I wrote my entrance essay on digging in the dirt. Maybe I got lucky. I think that AP classes, and extracurricular activities are like being a Stanford grad when applying at a big tech company. They are a way for hiring managers/admissions officers to avoid bad outcomes not to optimize for good ones.

raybb 10y ago
digging in the dirt?
- iamthepieman 10y ago
  I think it was about growing tomatoes in northern climates - about doing something for the challenge and beauty of the possibility of success and not just the final outcome which, in my case, was a handful of not quite ripe tomatoes.

fny 10y ago

I have a friend who works in admissions at a top 10. The stupid extra-curricular and AP class suggestions is not what they target. Admissions officers often see through this type of resume stuffing, and reluctantly use these candidates to fill in space after they selected their top candidates. Baseline requirements: near 1600 SAT and near 4.0 unweighted GPA taking the hardest classes. To the school, this proves you'll be able to survive at a top 10. Again, this is a requirement for consideration not admission. What gets you in: curiosity, creativity, and passion. The most compelling candidates have a narrative and a drive that speaks through the application. Say your kid loves botany, dance, travel, music, or engineering. Foster those interests and enable them to achieve in what they love. An admission officer would swoon over a kid with a passion for biology and husbandry over the directionless one who took every AP science class in the books and joined umpteen honor society.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
See, your baseline requirements to me suggest a kid that has not only accepted the system but embraced it. They've gone all in on a dumb, onerous, do x, do y, do z to succeed worldview that's inherent in high school. Now maybe I'm just complaining about being a bad student, but I'm at least a little suspicious of students who have so willingly grabbed onto that system and don't see through it for the farce it is. I think it's more likely that you'll get excellent employees out of those people than it is that you'll find great creative passion. The time investment required for such marks certainly weighs against it.
- fny 10y ago
  Yet, the thresholds colleges created have encouraged bad behavior. My point is, contrary to popular belief, they dislike candidates who are onerous, do x, do y, do z sheep too. The validictorian my junior year in high school, for example, was one of those. Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I do think calling the system a farce is a rather extreme exaggeration. Imagine you want to be an engineer. In what way are the AP math and science courses inadequate preparations for what's to come in college? Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently?
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    I don't have anything useful to add, but those are good points.
  - csa 10y ago
    Thank you for sharing all of your information -- it's nice to have another voice. > Took almost every AP class, 1600 SAT, tons and tons of random clubs. Got in nowhere. I wish people new how not uncommon this is. > Yes, a kid could choose to mindlessly take these classes, but if he's taking them while building and racing go carts, would you not see him differently? This is a great and completely realistic example. It's tough to read good applications that have specific examples along these lines and say anything other than "wow, that's cool" (Note: there are also weak applications that have narratives like this, but that's a different issue -- it's not a crude formula).

csa 10y ago

Your tack is much more likely to get them into an Ivy, and it's not even close. They will definitely need awesome grades in non-puff classes as well as a very high SAT score, but this is not terribly difficult for kids smart kids who have figured out the fundamentals of learning strategies. The jammed-packed extracurriculars and overweighted AP classes done to the exclusion of interesting things just makes them a clone of a bunch of other applicants that don't really stand out.