4 ms·

Yes, I had the same realization and now try to view "US Dollars" as a Government run loyalty program, and accumulate cash-back dollars instead of relatively les

by nugget 10y ago

Yes, I had the same realization and now try to view "US Dollars" as a Government run loyalty program, and accumulate cash-back dollars instead of relatively less valuable airline miles. But the psychological amplification of an airline mile's true value (not to mention risk of devaluation) is hard to kick.

logicallee 10y ago
>and now try to view "US Dollars" as a Government run loyalty program This is a very deep and totally novel perspective, and you are really onto something. So, if we view it from this perspective, the Government's loyalty program sucks! You get nothing if you accumulate ten thousand, a hundred thousand, or a million points. There is zero Government reward of any kind for any use of points: the value of the points is ENTIRELY in their market value (what you can buy for a dollar) and as a 0.0000% component, any direct or indirect acknowledgment, praise, plaque, or even stuffed animal. While it MAY be silly that the government would give a teddy bear with a manacturing cost of as little as 80 cents in exchange for using its loyalty program, and paying taxes on it, in the amount of tens or thousands of the same, in fact private industry proves this is not at all so! Obviously the US government is not a private enterprise, the social contract (and constitition), and general good taste gives it some powers but not others, but some considered steps in this direction certainly might well end up a net positive for everyone. (As I wrote this comment I felt that it's so unusual and counterintuitive, even absurd, that it might sound like a satire/parody, so just to be clear the train of thought I expressed above is serious/in earnest.)
- DougBTX 10y ago
  The US government has other "loyalty programs", for example if you buy a 10 year treasury bond instead of holding cash, they'll pay out a bonus every six months. Another way to look at it is return on investment vs risk vs liquidity. Since inflation is 0-2%, cash is worth less every year, but it is easy to buy things with it. So if you have lots of cash coming in, choosing where to store it gets more tricky: http://www.asymco.com/2012/01/24/apple-added-38-billion-in-cash-last-year/ http://www.asymco.com/2012/01/24/apple-added-38-billion-in-c...
  - logicallee 10y ago
    Yes, the treasury bond you mention is an example of a "loyalty program" or its "points" in the sense I mention. However what percentage of the population buys treasury bonds? (Serious questions). Most users simply do not have any special rewards by the government for particular use of their points. Being able to withhold something from taxes is one of the major ways that the government incentivizes certain spending, and it works. But to be very clear, I am specifically talking about "ribbons" and plaques and non-monetary types of acknowledgment that the U.S. Government could give in exchange for certain uses of its points, i.e. certain specific uses or accumulation of its cash. Acknowledgments that have no monetary value. So in this sense the Government doesn't do much. Do they even send you a "thank you" letter if you buy a 10-year treasury bond? This is what I'm talking about. Entirely non-monetary things that only exist in the realm of points and acknowledgment -- not things with actual true monetary value. This is a powerful train of thought that is unexplored entirely.
    - WrtCdEvrydy 10y ago
      > However what percentage of the population buys treasury bonds? (Serious questions) Basically, if you invest in any ETF or 401k with "government bonds" (including Acorns), you are holding treasury bonds. The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of the debt. Foreign nations only hold 32.5% of the total. Source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownersh...
- reubenswartz 10y ago
  Nugget's point is very interesting, and I think it's actually a very effective loyalty program. You get a lot of economic and psychological benefits as you accrue points. ;-)

by nugget 10y ago

logicallee 10y ago

>and now try to view "US Dollars" as a Government run loyalty program This is a very deep and totally novel perspective, and you are really onto something. So, if we view it from this perspective, the Government's loyalty program sucks! You get nothing if you accumulate ten thousand, a hundred thousand, or a million points. There is zero Government reward of any kind for any use of points: the value of the points is ENTIRELY in their market value (what you can buy for a dollar) and as a 0.0000% component, any direct or indirect acknowledgment, praise, plaque, or even stuffed animal. While it MAY be silly that the government would give a teddy bear with a manacturing cost of as little as 80 cents in exchange for using its loyalty program, and paying taxes on it, in the amount of tens or thousands of the same, in fact private industry proves this is not at all so! Obviously the US government is not a private enterprise, the social contract (and constitition), and general good taste gives it some powers but not others, but some considered steps in this direction certainly might well end up a net positive for everyone. (As I wrote this comment I felt that it's so unusual and counterintuitive, even absurd, that it might sound like a satire/parody, so just to be clear the train of thought I expressed above is serious/in earnest.)

DougBTX 10y ago
The US government has other "loyalty programs", for example if you buy a 10 year treasury bond instead of holding cash, they'll pay out a bonus every six months. Another way to look at it is return on investment vs risk vs liquidity. Since inflation is 0-2%, cash is worth less every year, but it is easy to buy things with it. So if you have lots of cash coming in, choosing where to store it gets more tricky: http://www.asymco.com/2012/01/24/apple-added-38-billion-in-cash-last-year/ http://www.asymco.com/2012/01/24/apple-added-38-billion-in-c...
- logicallee 10y ago
  Yes, the treasury bond you mention is an example of a "loyalty program" or its "points" in the sense I mention. However what percentage of the population buys treasury bonds? (Serious questions). Most users simply do not have any special rewards by the government for particular use of their points. Being able to withhold something from taxes is one of the major ways that the government incentivizes certain spending, and it works. But to be very clear, I am specifically talking about "ribbons" and plaques and non-monetary types of acknowledgment that the U.S. Government could give in exchange for certain uses of its points, i.e. certain specific uses or accumulation of its cash. Acknowledgments that have no monetary value. So in this sense the Government doesn't do much. Do they even send you a "thank you" letter if you buy a 10-year treasury bond? This is what I'm talking about. Entirely non-monetary things that only exist in the realm of points and acknowledgment -- not things with actual true monetary value. This is a powerful train of thought that is unexplored entirely.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 10y ago
    > However what percentage of the population buys treasury bonds? (Serious questions) Basically, if you invest in any ETF or 401k with "government bonds" (including Acorns), you are holding treasury bonds. The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of the debt. Foreign nations only hold 32.5% of the total. Source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownersh...
reubenswartz 10y ago
Nugget's point is very interesting, and I think it's actually a very effective loyalty program. You get a lot of economic and psychological benefits as you accrue points. ;-)