8 ms·

Forget coding, we need to teach our kids how to dream

120 points by guilhas 10y ago

codr4life 10y ago
Word. I started coding at 8 and I'm not letting my children anywhere near the stupid gadgets before they're old enough to see through the illusion. Computers are stupid, humans are so much more than 1's and 0's. Teaching kids to code is about profits, period; and no one except our controllers really gives a shit about profits when it comes at the expense of human lives.
- snailletters 10y ago
  This stance seems almost ironic, given your alias. I assume your name is based in this attitude though. > at the expense of human lives. I think you mean to imply that children will become mindless coding machines, but would you not agree that coding can help to expand your view of the world, just as learning a language or beginning to paint? As the article implies: > Each and every one of us is born curious and creative, everyone has the ability to form connections in their mind. Is coding as a facilitator to our curiosity? Maybe it is only a matter of nurturing a coding experience that complements that curiosity.
libeclipse 10y ago
This "code written by code" meme is over-hyped. It'll be a long time yet before software has any chance of developing a creative solution to a problem better than its human counterparts.
- fny 10y ago
  The "code written by code" meme is bogus. Code writes code today. That's the point of every compiler, library, and SDK. We'll simply make higher-level questions and statements than we once did, just like we're doing today.
  - kazinator 10y ago
    You and other commenters are all equivocating on multiple definitions of the verb "write" ranging from "mechanically generate" to "invent or obtain informally stated functional requirements, augment with a detailed design, implement, test ..."
    - fny 10y ago
      Let me simplify my argument then. When I say "Alexa, what's the weather today?" I'm coding. For as long as there is some desire to command a machine and stringing those commands together, there will be code.
      - ThrowawayR2 10y ago
        > When I say "Alexa, what's the weather today?" I'm coding. Having worked (albeit briefly) on similar systems in the past, no, really, you aren't.
- ue_ 10y ago
  Let's not say that writing Lisp macros has no skill :)
rb808 10y ago
This is a big problem with the college admissions process. For my children I'm thinking of ignoring most of the stupid extra-curricular and extra AP class suggestions and concentrating on curiosity, teamwork and creativity. Play, travel, music, having fun with friends. They'll likely not get into Ivy league colleges but will be better and more successful in the long term.
- iamthepieman 10y ago
  I got into an ivy league college. I was homeschooled. I had no diploma, just a GED and good but not exceptional SAT scores. I wrote my entrance essay on digging in the dirt. Maybe I got lucky. I think that AP classes, and extracurricular activities are like being a Stanford grad when applying at a big tech company. They are a way for hiring managers/admissions officers to avoid bad outcomes not to optimize for good ones.
  - raybb 10y ago
    digging in the dirt?
    - iamthepieman 10y ago
      I think it was about growing tomatoes in northern climates - about doing something for the challenge and beauty of the possibility of success and not just the final outcome which, in my case, was a handful of not quite ripe tomatoes.
- fny 10y ago
  I have a friend who works in admissions at a top 10. The stupid extra-curricular and AP class suggestions is not what they target. Admissions officers often see through this type of resume stuffing, and reluctantly use these candidates to fill in space after they selected their top candidates. Baseline requirements: near 1600 SAT and near 4.0 unweighted GPA taking the hardest classes. To the school, this proves you'll be able to survive at a top 10. Again, this is a requirement for consideration not admission. What gets you in: curiosity, creativity, and passion. The most compelling candidates have a narrative and a drive that speaks through the application. Say your kid loves botany, dance, travel, music, or engineering. Foster those interests and enable them to achieve in what they love. An admission officer would swoon over a kid with a passion for biology and husbandry over the directionless one who took every AP science class in the books and joined umpteen honor society.
andrewclunn 10y ago
Soft skills is often a way of dancing around saying that charisma matters. Can you teach your child to be more attractive? People focus on hard sciences, math, and complex skills (like proficiency with a musical instrument) precisely because they are the areas where training matters. In the same way that instilling good eating habits and making sure your child exercises are important. Focusing on "creativity" is often just how people who suck at math and aren't particularly athletic or beautiful tell themselves that they've special too. Gonna really go full creative artist type? Then college is a waste.
- goldenkey 10y ago
  Acquiring soft skills comes naturally anyhow. So I agree, take on the hard technical training early when your mind is ripe. Being well rounded is doable on the downtime from the hard and exhaustive learning.
  - veddox 10y ago
    > Acquiring soft skills comes naturally anyhow. Yes and no. Basically, learning how to get along with others is a skill you need to learn and practice just like coding. If you don't have the opportunities or take the time to practice, you won't learn it. In a good environment, you have enough contact with other people that "soft skills" seem to come automatically. But if you spend a significant portion of your developmental years isolated (for whatever reason), social skills are anything but natural.
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  I'm fairly good at math and quite athletic, and creativity is definitely more important than either of them. Everything around you only exists because someone somewhere was creative at some point. On the other hand, plenty of gorgeous mosques, castles and cathedrals were built without any math at all. Not to mention all the art, music, delicious food, etc that makes your life worth living. A world of math and sport devoid of creativity would be an utterly depressing place.
  - 10y ago
taksintikk 10y ago
Or just plain struggle for something. Great many of modern children live in an insulated world void of consequences.
- Kenji 10y ago
  I disagree. There are plenty of consequences in a child's life. Probably more than there used to be. The problem is that they're stupid consequences that bear no resemblance with real life decision making and consequences. E.g. you get punished for throwing a snowball or if you play with hot candle wax. You get bad marks if you don't memorise arbitrary completely useless facts well enough.
  - macspoofing 10y ago
    I think what s/he's saying is that kids are overprotected and don't learn to deal with adversity. For example, the anti-bullying campaigns went way too far. Way too far. Kids are stupid but still have to learn to solve their problems and they have to have the space to make mistakes. >You get bad marks if you don't memorise arbitrary completely useless facts well enough. Sure. But you still have to learn to deal with it. It's not enough to say public education sucks so you can just tune out.
nawitus 10y ago
"Many thinking teaching kids to code is the solution, but won’t soon software be written by software?" Once software engineering is eliminated, pretty much all jobs are eliminated, and all bets are off.
- 127 10y ago
  That is assuming that the software writing software can write software sophisticated enough to design robots sophisticated enough to replace humans. Of course there's the possibility of human beings working only as the body for an AI. But that wouldn't be replacing all jobs.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    The software may not be able to do that, but it might be able to write better software, that writes better software, that writes better software, that finally does that. Also known as "recursive self-improvement", "intelligence explosion", or "AI going FOOM".
tboyd47 10y ago
Isn't instilling values the job of parents? If not, then what are parents for? Just homework help?
known 10y ago
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Einstein
- goldenkey 10y ago
  You must be cutting the quote. Einstein wrote a letter to his son where he talked about persistence. Learning mathematics or physics to a degree that allows you to make breakthroughs takes extreme persistence. IQ only lubricates the brain. No replacement for hard work. Not every discovery is borne of speed genies, much comes from depth. The difference between calculating and creating is about depth.
  - duncanawoods 10y ago
    Its from an interview: E: “I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.” I: “Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?” E: “I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/01/einstein-imagination/ http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/01/einstein-imagination...
    - contingencies 10y ago
      Added to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
goldenkey 10y ago
Honestly, the biggest part of this is teaching safe drug use instead of stigmatizing it. Dont be afraid of smoking pot or trying lsd or mushrooms because daddy and grandma said its evil. That rigid adoption and obedience is mostly a product of dumb kids combined with prude parents. Im saying, doing lsd or shrooms will give ineffable breadth to ones conscious thought every day afterwards till death. But dont get fake or cut or unpure drugs from seedy sources. Straight edge is narrow sighted. Rash risk taking is reckless and feckless. But knowing that the body is a bunch of endogenic drugs in the first place and not being afraid of expanding ones' narrow physical 'knock knock what you see is what you get' is invaluable. Its the difference between being a technical insect and a creative yet technical powerhouse. Live. Dont obey.
salesguy222 10y ago
Dreaming doesn't pay the bills. I can't dream about performing surgery on someone. If someone had taught me everything I needed to know to be a decent surgeon, and then introduced me to some important people hiring surgeons, and told me to go "dream"... then I would be a surgeon. If they told me to dream first, I probably wouldn't.
- fny 10y ago
  Luckily kids don't need to pay the bills for a while. ;)
deavmi 10y ago
They need to dream. I am really good at coming up with ideas and also thinking about implementation in a high-dream level that makes implementation seem more do-able.
orschiro 10y ago
The underlying assumption here is that technological development alone will not help us overcome the challenges of this millennium.
- veddox 10y ago
  Before we get ahead of ourselves, how about we start with the challenges of the century? ;-)
  - orschiro 10y ago
    Good point. Who says with the current developments, we have more than 100 years? :-)
cletus 10y ago
I'd say the author is way off on this one. Millenials are the convenient whipping boy for this. As a much-maligned group (e.g. [1]) many adjectives are attached e.g. Entitled, narcissistic, lazy. This is of course a generalization that leads to the inevitable fallacious defense of disprooof by counterexample but honestly this cliche isn't without cause in my experience. The education system focuses a little too much on creativity and not at all on developing skills or any kind of rote learning. I remember seeing an English documentary about students who got As in GCSE French that couldn't conjugate avoir (to have). As a side not the British government tackled the grade inflation problem by creating the A* grade above an A because too many people were getting As. There's been a ton of research showing how it's damaging to tell people they're inherently special rather than complementing they're effort ("you're smart" vs "you worked really hard on that") e.g. [2]. So I really don't think that overall the ability to dream is a problem. Just look at how many think they're going to be movie stars, music successes and startup billionaires despite the chance of success in any of these being incepredibly low. How is this not dreaming run amok? [1] http://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/ http://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/ [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/the-s-word/397205/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/the-s-...
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  If millennials are more narcissistic, it's because they've grown up with social networks where they can get their ego stroked. If anything, the next generation is going to be much worse. But hey, Facebook is progress, right? The education system does a terrible job of teaching people how to be creative. Educators don't even understand creativity, how can they teach it? Creativity in school is usually a code-word for "this work won't be graded for content". Rote learning has been shown time and time again to be the least effective, least engaging, most dispiriting form of learning. You want someone to learn something? Let them choose from some projects where the thing you want them to learn is required to complete it. That works much better, but unfortunately it's not so convenient for teachers. There's a reason people pick up languages quickly from immersion learning, and frequently not at all from traditional language classes. Ultimately, effective dreaming isn't about imagining yourself being at the goal post, i.e. being a millionaire or actor. That form of dream is like a mental opiate that actually saps your motivation. Effective dreaming involves imagining yourself overcoming challenges and taking action to move towards your goal. That sort of dreaming actually motivates people to act.
knappa 10y ago
> I don’t need to know how to code or shoot in 360 degrees or big rights to music, but I do need to know the very best people who can. We can't all be managers. > We can’t begin to imagine a career in 2020, let alone 2030. Come on. Those are 3 and 13 years away.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  Yeah, I found that kind of hilarious. Doesn't this blog post falls into a recency bias that's common with lots of things? The notion that we're in an especially chaotic world must be pretty silly for any generation that grew up under constant threat of disease, war, starvation, etc. It talks about "fake news" needing to be fought, but then advocates against factual knowledge to do so. The way you know something is fake is by having a well of knowledge to draw from. It's not just rote memorization, it's putting the pieces together, which you can't do if you just rely on Google for everything.
- ido 10y ago
  Come on. Those are 3 and 13 years away. Even in the supposedly fast-changing world of computing...I was working as a java programmer 13 years ago and could have very easily imagined what a career programmer would do today (surprise - pretty much the same as in 2004, tho maybe a bigger difference compared to 1994).
based2 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_and_the_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_and_the_Mockingbird https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.textesrares.com%2Findex.php%2FVaria%2FSun-Wukong-du-Xiyou-ji-ou-les-Aventures-du-singe-chinois-selon-Wu-Cheng-en.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jdietrich 10y ago
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you want to expand someone's sense of what is possible, teach them a practical skill. I have no idea how to teach someone to dream. I can teach someone to look at a piece of lumber and see a jewellery box or a bird table or a guitar. I can teach someone to look at a pile of scrap electronics and see a headphone amplifier or an egg timer or a robot. I can teach someone to look at a group of bored people and see a theatre company or a choir or an expedition. IMO, we're seeing a generation of young people who want to change the world, but only know how to write essays and recite facts. There's a desperate lack of doing in the lives of our children - they have been taught by thousands of hours of schooling and after-schooling to be obedient followers. They're very good at being squeaky wheels, but they don't know how to make things happen. Their lives are bereft of making and doing, of unstructured and unsupervised play.
- fny 10y ago
  Ah "kids these days"...[0] I love to imagine what some older folk must've have said about "kids these days" back in the 60s and 70s. Probably a pile of useless fornicating, high-seeking hippies... But I digress. From my perspective, we're seeing this generation swoon over the dream of being doers and entrepreneurs. Isn't the lifeblood of nearly every startup young and hungry talent willing to work to "change the world" or make "the next big thing"? Isn't the average age of YC founders in the mid 20s? Aren't technology companies are often criticized for being agist? I often wonder about adults these days... [0]: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/literally-psyched/when-i-was-your-age-or-what-is-it-with-kids-these-days/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/literally-psyched/when-...
  - veddox 10y ago
    > Isn't the lifeblood of nearly every startup young and hungry talent willing to work to "change the world" or make "the next big thing"? What percentage of young adults work in a startup? I know we're on HN here, but don't forget there's a world outside Silicon Valley...
  - jdietrich 10y ago
    I don't think that kids these days are awful. I think they're great - they're socially progressive, they're cultured, they have high aspirations and they work really hard. I think that successive generations have let them down, due to a culture of parenting that is dominated by fear. I'm not a naysayer or a nostalgic pessimist. I think that there are clear trends in society, some positive and some negative. It's obviously great news that we no longer consider it acceptable to beat children or to smoke during pregnancy. There is a clear trend in parenting and schooling towards more structure, more pressure and far less independence. We have seen a huge increase in educational attainment and college admission which is overwhelmingly a good thing, but the greater focus on academic study has come at the cost of other skills. For every twentysomething who founds a startup, there are dozens of baristas with liberal arts degrees. A lot of those baristas might dream of founding a startup, but very few of them have the skills, experience and confidence to do so. Research indicates that the average age of an entrepreneur is actually 40; most successful businesses are founded by people with an established career and a great deal of professional experience. High rates of youth unemployment and underemployment are likely to have a significant impact on innovation in ten or twenty years. http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2010/05/the-anatomy-of-an-entrepreneur http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2010/05/the-anat...
veddox 10y ago
I must say I found this article very weak and way too full of stereotypes. First, the myth of the "increasingly unpredictable world". It's common, perhaps especially so in tech circles, but not particularly sound when seen in the greater context of history. "A world more divided and polarised than ever" is just rot. (And talking about history: "In recent years, we have considered maths, reading, and writing as the basic building blocks for survival" - has this guy ever heard about the septem artes liberales? Even the Romans had the "three Rs" in their education!) Secondly: yes, we do still need to have factual knowledge - even in the age of Google and Wikipedia. The Internet can furnish you with just about any piece of information you desire, but information does not equate knowledge! Of course, critical thinking is indeed just that - critical - but thinking requires knowledge. Trying to think without a base of knowledge just isn't possible. As for his statement "we’re living in a world where we outsource knowledge and skills to the Internet": who put the information on the Internet in the first place? Thirdly, the importance of creativity. Yes, creativity is incredibly important. But again, creativity without skill is dead. And what does skill require? That's right, practice. Lot's of it. Before you can be truly creative, you've got to be persistent. Before schools can profitably teach creativity, they need to teach persistence and skills. And last: relationships. Well, the fact that relationships are vital is a bit of a no-brainer. They always have been. But when the author says "I don’t need to know how to [do stuff] but I do need to know the very best people who can", that's just rubbish. Because if everybody had that attitude, nobody would know how to do anything at all! You don't need to be the best, and you don't need to know how to do everything - but you sure as heck need to know how to do something! Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin.
techbio 10y ago
As long as kids are artificially stovepiped into growing up around kids their age, this futurists' balance, agility, and empathy are going to continue to be developed by their peers, and not by removing things computers can do from the curriculum. Pretty arrogant to think of steering generations around. They still shouldn't trust anyone over 30.
dlwdlw 10y ago
There's a joke somewhere about rowing teams and how the US tried to improve performance by replacing all the rowers with rowing managers. Almost all structure is organized into log n tree structures to manage complexity. There's limited room at the top. All advice that focuses driving towards these limited spots seem ill conceived to me. The overall goal should be to improve the overall wealth of each node. But when everyone is trying and training to be a leader, you end up with 99% rejects with strengths that actually hamper them to be productive because now they think they're too good for everything else.

120 points by guilhas 10y ago

Word. I started coding at 8 and I'm not letting my children anywhere near the stupid gadgets before they're old enough to see through the illusion. Computers are stupid, humans are so much more than 1's and 0's. Teaching kids to code is about profits, period; and no one except our controllers really gives a shit about profits when it comes at the expense of human lives.

snailletters 10y ago
This stance seems almost ironic, given your alias. I assume your name is based in this attitude though. > at the expense of human lives. I think you mean to imply that children will become mindless coding machines, but would you not agree that coding can help to expand your view of the world, just as learning a language or beginning to paint? As the article implies: > Each and every one of us is born curious and creative, everyone has the ability to form connections in their mind. Is coding as a facilitator to our curiosity? Maybe it is only a matter of nurturing a coding experience that complements that curiosity.

libeclipse 10y ago

This "code written by code" meme is over-hyped. It'll be a long time yet before software has any chance of developing a creative solution to a problem better than its human counterparts.

fny 10y ago
The "code written by code" meme is bogus. Code writes code today. That's the point of every compiler, library, and SDK. We'll simply make higher-level questions and statements than we once did, just like we're doing today.
- kazinator 10y ago
  You and other commenters are all equivocating on multiple definitions of the verb "write" ranging from "mechanically generate" to "invent or obtain informally stated functional requirements, augment with a detailed design, implement, test ..."
  - fny 10y ago
    Let me simplify my argument then. When I say "Alexa, what's the weather today?" I'm coding. For as long as there is some desire to command a machine and stringing those commands together, there will be code.
    - ThrowawayR2 10y ago
      > When I say "Alexa, what's the weather today?" I'm coding. Having worked (albeit briefly) on similar systems in the past, no, really, you aren't.
ue_ 10y ago
Let's not say that writing Lisp macros has no skill :)

rb808 10y ago

This is a big problem with the college admissions process. For my children I'm thinking of ignoring most of the stupid extra-curricular and extra AP class suggestions and concentrating on curiosity, teamwork and creativity. Play, travel, music, having fun with friends. They'll likely not get into Ivy league colleges but will be better and more successful in the long term.

iamthepieman 10y ago
I got into an ivy league college. I was homeschooled. I had no diploma, just a GED and good but not exceptional SAT scores. I wrote my entrance essay on digging in the dirt. Maybe I got lucky. I think that AP classes, and extracurricular activities are like being a Stanford grad when applying at a big tech company. They are a way for hiring managers/admissions officers to avoid bad outcomes not to optimize for good ones.
- raybb 10y ago
  digging in the dirt?
  - iamthepieman 10y ago
    I think it was about growing tomatoes in northern climates - about doing something for the challenge and beauty of the possibility of success and not just the final outcome which, in my case, was a handful of not quite ripe tomatoes.
fny 10y ago
I have a friend who works in admissions at a top 10. The stupid extra-curricular and AP class suggestions is not what they target. Admissions officers often see through this type of resume stuffing, and reluctantly use these candidates to fill in space after they selected their top candidates. Baseline requirements: near 1600 SAT and near 4.0 unweighted GPA taking the hardest classes. To the school, this proves you'll be able to survive at a top 10. Again, this is a requirement for consideration not admission. What gets you in: curiosity, creativity, and passion. The most compelling candidates have a narrative and a drive that speaks through the application. Say your kid loves botany, dance, travel, music, or engineering. Foster those interests and enable them to achieve in what they love. An admission officer would swoon over a kid with a passion for biology and husbandry over the directionless one who took every AP science class in the books and joined umpteen honor society.

andrewclunn 10y ago

Soft skills is often a way of dancing around saying that charisma matters. Can you teach your child to be more attractive? People focus on hard sciences, math, and complex skills (like proficiency with a musical instrument) precisely because they are the areas where training matters. In the same way that instilling good eating habits and making sure your child exercises are important. Focusing on "creativity" is often just how people who suck at math and aren't particularly athletic or beautiful tell themselves that they've special too. Gonna really go full creative artist type? Then college is a waste.

goldenkey 10y ago
Acquiring soft skills comes naturally anyhow. So I agree, take on the hard technical training early when your mind is ripe. Being well rounded is doable on the downtime from the hard and exhaustive learning.
- veddox 10y ago
  > Acquiring soft skills comes naturally anyhow. Yes and no. Basically, learning how to get along with others is a skill you need to learn and practice just like coding. If you don't have the opportunities or take the time to practice, you won't learn it. In a good environment, you have enough contact with other people that "soft skills" seem to come automatically. But if you spend a significant portion of your developmental years isolated (for whatever reason), social skills are anything but natural.
CuriouslyC 10y ago
I'm fairly good at math and quite athletic, and creativity is definitely more important than either of them. Everything around you only exists because someone somewhere was creative at some point. On the other hand, plenty of gorgeous mosques, castles and cathedrals were built without any math at all. Not to mention all the art, music, delicious food, etc that makes your life worth living. A world of math and sport devoid of creativity would be an utterly depressing place.
- 10y ago

taksintikk 10y ago

Or just plain struggle for something. Great many of modern children live in an insulated world void of consequences.

Kenji 10y ago
I disagree. There are plenty of consequences in a child's life. Probably more than there used to be. The problem is that they're stupid consequences that bear no resemblance with real life decision making and consequences. E.g. you get punished for throwing a snowball or if you play with hot candle wax. You get bad marks if you don't memorise arbitrary completely useless facts well enough.
- macspoofing 10y ago
  I think what s/he's saying is that kids are overprotected and don't learn to deal with adversity. For example, the anti-bullying campaigns went way too far. Way too far. Kids are stupid but still have to learn to solve their problems and they have to have the space to make mistakes. >You get bad marks if you don't memorise arbitrary completely useless facts well enough. Sure. But you still have to learn to deal with it. It's not enough to say public education sucks so you can just tune out.

nawitus 10y ago

"Many thinking teaching kids to code is the solution, but won’t soon software be written by software?" Once software engineering is eliminated, pretty much all jobs are eliminated, and all bets are off.

127 10y ago
That is assuming that the software writing software can write software sophisticated enough to design robots sophisticated enough to replace humans. Of course there's the possibility of human beings working only as the body for an AI. But that wouldn't be replacing all jobs.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  The software may not be able to do that, but it might be able to write better software, that writes better software, that writes better software, that finally does that. Also known as "recursive self-improvement", "intelligence explosion", or "AI going FOOM".

tboyd47 10y ago

Isn't instilling values the job of parents? If not, then what are parents for? Just homework help?

known 10y ago

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Einstein

goldenkey 10y ago
You must be cutting the quote. Einstein wrote a letter to his son where he talked about persistence. Learning mathematics or physics to a degree that allows you to make breakthroughs takes extreme persistence. IQ only lubricates the brain. No replacement for hard work. Not every discovery is borne of speed genies, much comes from depth. The difference between calculating and creating is about depth.
- duncanawoods 10y ago
  Its from an interview: E: “I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.” I: “Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?” E: “I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/01/einstein-imagination/ http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/01/einstein-imagination...
  - contingencies 10y ago
    Added to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

goldenkey 10y ago

Honestly, the biggest part of this is teaching safe drug use instead of stigmatizing it. Dont be afraid of smoking pot or trying lsd or mushrooms because daddy and grandma said its evil. That rigid adoption and obedience is mostly a product of dumb kids combined with prude parents. Im saying, doing lsd or shrooms will give ineffable breadth to ones conscious thought every day afterwards till death. But dont get fake or cut or unpure drugs from seedy sources. Straight edge is narrow sighted. Rash risk taking is reckless and feckless. But knowing that the body is a bunch of endogenic drugs in the first place and not being afraid of expanding ones' narrow physical 'knock knock what you see is what you get' is invaluable. Its the difference between being a technical insect and a creative yet technical powerhouse. Live. Dont obey.

salesguy222 10y ago

Dreaming doesn't pay the bills. I can't dream about performing surgery on someone. If someone had taught me everything I needed to know to be a decent surgeon, and then introduced me to some important people hiring surgeons, and told me to go "dream"... then I would be a surgeon. If they told me to dream first, I probably wouldn't.

fny 10y ago
Luckily kids don't need to pay the bills for a while. ;)

deavmi 10y ago

They need to dream. I am really good at coming up with ideas and also thinking about implementation in a high-dream level that makes implementation seem more do-able.

orschiro 10y ago

The underlying assumption here is that technological development alone will not help us overcome the challenges of this millennium.

veddox 10y ago
Before we get ahead of ourselves, how about we start with the challenges of the century? ;-)
- orschiro 10y ago
  Good point. Who says with the current developments, we have more than 100 years? :-)

cletus 10y ago

I'd say the author is way off on this one. Millenials are the convenient whipping boy for this. As a much-maligned group (e.g. [1]) many adjectives are attached e.g. Entitled, narcissistic, lazy. This is of course a generalization that leads to the inevitable fallacious defense of disprooof by counterexample but honestly this cliche isn't without cause in my experience. The education system focuses a little too much on creativity and not at all on developing skills or any kind of rote learning. I remember seeing an English documentary about students who got As in GCSE French that couldn't conjugate avoir (to have). As a side not the British government tackled the grade inflation problem by creating the A* grade above an A because too many people were getting As. There's been a ton of research showing how it's damaging to tell people they're inherently special rather than complementing they're effort ("you're smart" vs "you worked really hard on that") e.g. [2]. So I really don't think that overall the ability to dream is a problem. Just look at how many think they're going to be movie stars, music successes and startup billionaires despite the chance of success in any of these being incepredibly low. How is this not dreaming run amok? [1] http://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/ http://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/ [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/the-s-word/397205/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/the-s-...

CuriouslyC 10y ago
If millennials are more narcissistic, it's because they've grown up with social networks where they can get their ego stroked. If anything, the next generation is going to be much worse. But hey, Facebook is progress, right? The education system does a terrible job of teaching people how to be creative. Educators don't even understand creativity, how can they teach it? Creativity in school is usually a code-word for "this work won't be graded for content". Rote learning has been shown time and time again to be the least effective, least engaging, most dispiriting form of learning. You want someone to learn something? Let them choose from some projects where the thing you want them to learn is required to complete it. That works much better, but unfortunately it's not so convenient for teachers. There's a reason people pick up languages quickly from immersion learning, and frequently not at all from traditional language classes. Ultimately, effective dreaming isn't about imagining yourself being at the goal post, i.e. being a millionaire or actor. That form of dream is like a mental opiate that actually saps your motivation. Effective dreaming involves imagining yourself overcoming challenges and taking action to move towards your goal. That sort of dreaming actually motivates people to act.

knappa 10y ago

> I don’t need to know how to code or shoot in 360 degrees or big rights to music, but I do need to know the very best people who can. We can't all be managers. > We can’t begin to imagine a career in 2020, let alone 2030. Come on. Those are 3 and 13 years away.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
Yeah, I found that kind of hilarious. Doesn't this blog post falls into a recency bias that's common with lots of things? The notion that we're in an especially chaotic world must be pretty silly for any generation that grew up under constant threat of disease, war, starvation, etc. It talks about "fake news" needing to be fought, but then advocates against factual knowledge to do so. The way you know something is fake is by having a well of knowledge to draw from. It's not just rote memorization, it's putting the pieces together, which you can't do if you just rely on Google for everything.
ido 10y ago
Come on. Those are 3 and 13 years away. Even in the supposedly fast-changing world of computing...I was working as a java programmer 13 years ago and could have very easily imagined what a career programmer would do today (surprise - pretty much the same as in 2004, tho maybe a bigger difference compared to 1994).

based2 10y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_and_the_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_and_the_Mockingbird https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.textesrares.com%2Findex.php%2FVaria%2FSun-Wukong-du-Xiyou-ji-ou-les-Aventures-du-singe-chinois-selon-Wu-Cheng-en.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=...

deleted 10y ago

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jdietrich 10y ago

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you want to expand someone's sense of what is possible, teach them a practical skill. I have no idea how to teach someone to dream. I can teach someone to look at a piece of lumber and see a jewellery box or a bird table or a guitar. I can teach someone to look at a pile of scrap electronics and see a headphone amplifier or an egg timer or a robot. I can teach someone to look at a group of bored people and see a theatre company or a choir or an expedition. IMO, we're seeing a generation of young people who want to change the world, but only know how to write essays and recite facts. There's a desperate lack of doing in the lives of our children - they have been taught by thousands of hours of schooling and after-schooling to be obedient followers. They're very good at being squeaky wheels, but they don't know how to make things happen. Their lives are bereft of making and doing, of unstructured and unsupervised play.

fny 10y ago
Ah "kids these days"...[0] I love to imagine what some older folk must've have said about "kids these days" back in the 60s and 70s. Probably a pile of useless fornicating, high-seeking hippies... But I digress. From my perspective, we're seeing this generation swoon over the dream of being doers and entrepreneurs. Isn't the lifeblood of nearly every startup young and hungry talent willing to work to "change the world" or make "the next big thing"? Isn't the average age of YC founders in the mid 20s? Aren't technology companies are often criticized for being agist? I often wonder about adults these days... [0]: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/literally-psyched/when-i-was-your-age-or-what-is-it-with-kids-these-days/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/literally-psyched/when-...
- veddox 10y ago
  > Isn't the lifeblood of nearly every startup young and hungry talent willing to work to "change the world" or make "the next big thing"? What percentage of young adults work in a startup? I know we're on HN here, but don't forget there's a world outside Silicon Valley...
- jdietrich 10y ago
  I don't think that kids these days are awful. I think they're great - they're socially progressive, they're cultured, they have high aspirations and they work really hard. I think that successive generations have let them down, due to a culture of parenting that is dominated by fear. I'm not a naysayer or a nostalgic pessimist. I think that there are clear trends in society, some positive and some negative. It's obviously great news that we no longer consider it acceptable to beat children or to smoke during pregnancy. There is a clear trend in parenting and schooling towards more structure, more pressure and far less independence. We have seen a huge increase in educational attainment and college admission which is overwhelmingly a good thing, but the greater focus on academic study has come at the cost of other skills. For every twentysomething who founds a startup, there are dozens of baristas with liberal arts degrees. A lot of those baristas might dream of founding a startup, but very few of them have the skills, experience and confidence to do so. Research indicates that the average age of an entrepreneur is actually 40; most successful businesses are founded by people with an established career and a great deal of professional experience. High rates of youth unemployment and underemployment are likely to have a significant impact on innovation in ten or twenty years. http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2010/05/the-anatomy-of-an-entrepreneur http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2010/05/the-anat...

veddox 10y ago

I must say I found this article very weak and way too full of stereotypes. First, the myth of the "increasingly unpredictable world". It's common, perhaps especially so in tech circles, but not particularly sound when seen in the greater context of history. "A world more divided and polarised than ever" is just rot. (And talking about history: "In recent years, we have considered maths, reading, and writing as the basic building blocks for survival" - has this guy ever heard about the septem artes liberales? Even the Romans had the "three Rs" in their education!) Secondly: yes, we do still need to have factual knowledge - even in the age of Google and Wikipedia. The Internet can furnish you with just about any piece of information you desire, but information does not equate knowledge! Of course, critical thinking is indeed just that - critical - but thinking requires knowledge. Trying to think without a base of knowledge just isn't possible. As for his statement "we’re living in a world where we outsource knowledge and skills to the Internet": who put the information on the Internet in the first place? Thirdly, the importance of creativity. Yes, creativity is incredibly important. But again, creativity without skill is dead. And what does skill require? That's right, practice. Lot's of it. Before you can be truly creative, you've got to be persistent. Before schools can profitably teach creativity, they need to teach persistence and skills. And last: relationships. Well, the fact that relationships are vital is a bit of a no-brainer. They always have been. But when the author says "I don’t need to know how to [do stuff] but I do need to know the very best people who can", that's just rubbish. Because if everybody had that attitude, nobody would know how to do anything at all! You don't need to be the best, and you don't need to know how to do everything - but you sure as heck need to know how to do something! Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin.

techbio 10y ago

As long as kids are artificially stovepiped into growing up around kids their age, this futurists' balance, agility, and empathy are going to continue to be developed by their peers, and not by removing things computers can do from the curriculum. Pretty arrogant to think of steering generations around. They still shouldn't trust anyone over 30.

dlwdlw 10y ago

There's a joke somewhere about rowing teams and how the US tried to improve performance by replacing all the rowers with rowing managers. Almost all structure is organized into log n tree structures to manage complexity. There's limited room at the top. All advice that focuses driving towards these limited spots seem ill conceived to me. The overall goal should be to improve the overall wealth of each node. But when everyone is trying and training to be a leader, you end up with 99% rejects with strengths that actually hamper them to be productive because now they think they're too good for everything else.