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> Italy -> advanced economy -> lol Besides the fact that you phrased that like a 10-year-old, are you serious? Italy is the 3rd largest economy in the EU.

doktrin 10y ago
> Italy is the 3rd largest economy in the EU. "advanced" and "largest" are related but not synonymous I don't want to defend the parents barb any further, so I'll just say this : there's a reason so many highly educated Italians - particular from the south - emigrate. The country suffers from brain drain on an epic scale because the local economy doesn't offer sufficient opportunities.
- walterstucco 10y ago
  > because the local economy doesn't offer sufficient opportunities. no, it's because the culture is so 50 years behind the rest of the world that I don;t want to sit in a bar were people are still discussing about gay rights or gay marriage or abortion or adapting to an ever changing world or the "euro's faults", like there's really something to argue about it. I don;t want to live in a country of trained monkeys trying to set the clock 100 years back and talking about how better fascism was. That's why I left.
  - doktrin 10y ago
    > no, it's because the culture is so 50 years behind the rest of the world Aside from it being your personal experience, are you saying cultural fit is the primary reason for emigration?
    - walterstucco 10y ago
      Yes, it is. Many will tell you that it is because there's more work outside Italy, but in reality works ethic is a direct consequence of the cultural heritage, not of the country laws or the abundance of job posts. I don't see myself as a "typical Italian" anymore, quite the opposite, I find it rather offensive. The common principles that had brought the citizen of this country together after the fascism and the war and made us opponents and not enemies, have collapsed. If my job and my taxes (quite a lot higher than the average) are paying for the education or the health care of those people that want to ban vaccines or that protect castes and guild of all kinds, when not directly working for the mob, I'm outa here.
      - doktrin 10y ago
        > Many will tell you that it is because there's more work outside Italy, but in reality works ethic is a direct consequence of the cultural heritage, not of the country laws or the abundance of job posts. Interesting. I know quite a few Italian expats (non-software, mostly phds in sciences, mechanical engineers and the like), and they say there's literally nothing in their home regions (Sicily, Puglia) - but that otherwise they'd like to live there despite social issues.
Normal_gaussian 10y ago
4th largest economy. The UK (2nd largest) leaves in 2019.
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  So, wouldn't we become 2nd, rather than 4th?
  - Normal_gaussian 10y ago
    1st: Germany 2nd: UK 3rd: France 4th: Italy The UK and France switch a lot, Italy is almost certain to become the 3rd largest in 2019 when the UK leaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#...
    - nkkollaw 10y ago
      Ah, got it. Thanks, thought we were 3rd.
      - RobertoG 10y ago
        Italy is 3rd by GDP in the Euro area but not in the European Union.
      - EdiX 10y ago
        You are probably thinking of the eurozone.
    - jaimex2 10y ago
      Interesting... The debt to GDP ratio of Italy stands at 132 percent and its unemployment rate exceeds 7.5 percent. I really don't get economics.
      - RobertoG 10y ago
        "I really don't get economics." Obviously. They are talking about only one indicator: GDP. What you don't get?

doktrin 10y ago

> Italy is the 3rd largest economy in the EU. "advanced" and "largest" are related but not synonymous I don't want to defend the parents barb any further, so I'll just say this : there's a reason so many highly educated Italians - particular from the south - emigrate. The country suffers from brain drain on an epic scale because the local economy doesn't offer sufficient opportunities.

walterstucco 10y ago
> because the local economy doesn't offer sufficient opportunities. no, it's because the culture is so 50 years behind the rest of the world that I don;t want to sit in a bar were people are still discussing about gay rights or gay marriage or abortion or adapting to an ever changing world or the "euro's faults", like there's really something to argue about it. I don;t want to live in a country of trained monkeys trying to set the clock 100 years back and talking about how better fascism was. That's why I left.
- doktrin 10y ago
  > no, it's because the culture is so 50 years behind the rest of the world Aside from it being your personal experience, are you saying cultural fit is the primary reason for emigration?
  - walterstucco 10y ago
    Yes, it is. Many will tell you that it is because there's more work outside Italy, but in reality works ethic is a direct consequence of the cultural heritage, not of the country laws or the abundance of job posts. I don't see myself as a "typical Italian" anymore, quite the opposite, I find it rather offensive. The common principles that had brought the citizen of this country together after the fascism and the war and made us opponents and not enemies, have collapsed. If my job and my taxes (quite a lot higher than the average) are paying for the education or the health care of those people that want to ban vaccines or that protect castes and guild of all kinds, when not directly working for the mob, I'm outa here.
    - doktrin 10y ago
      > Many will tell you that it is because there's more work outside Italy, but in reality works ethic is a direct consequence of the cultural heritage, not of the country laws or the abundance of job posts. Interesting. I know quite a few Italian expats (non-software, mostly phds in sciences, mechanical engineers and the like), and they say there's literally nothing in their home regions (Sicily, Puglia) - but that otherwise they'd like to live there despite social issues.

Normal_gaussian 10y ago

4th largest economy. The UK (2nd largest) leaves in 2019.

nkkollaw 10y ago
So, wouldn't we become 2nd, rather than 4th?
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  1st: Germany 2nd: UK 3rd: France 4th: Italy The UK and France switch a lot, Italy is almost certain to become the 3rd largest in 2019 when the UK leaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#...
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    Ah, got it. Thanks, thought we were 3rd.
    - RobertoG 10y ago
      Italy is 3rd by GDP in the Euro area but not in the European Union.
    - EdiX 10y ago
      You are probably thinking of the eurozone.
  - jaimex2 10y ago
    Interesting... The debt to GDP ratio of Italy stands at 132 percent and its unemployment rate exceeds 7.5 percent. I really don't get economics.
    - RobertoG 10y ago
      "I really don't get economics." Obviously. They are talking about only one indicator: GDP. What you don't get?