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While I value the positive press, assigning the words "Silicon Valley" to Toronto is quite a misnomer. As a lifelong resident of Toronto / member of the tech bu

by kitcar 16y ago

While I value the positive press, assigning the words "Silicon Valley" to Toronto is quite a misnomer. As a lifelong resident of Toronto / member of the tech business community, I've watched many of our best business/tech minds get sucked south of the border - leaving local businesses with a real lack of high quality senior tech talent. I can't blame them - lots more opportunity down there, and businesses in the US on the whole more welcoming to new entrants than up here in government-sanctioned monopoly land. At the end of the day, I think if you look at Chicago, Boston, or any other big US city you will find an equal if not larger number of successful tech startups.

perlpimp 16y ago
Very true, payscale just doesn't match to what the offerings are south of the border. Some say there more attraction for 'senior' talent - with families,with reliable and free healthcare and fairly family friendly city. That is however not what startups need. They need daring fresh talent, and such talent requires a fertile soil to be planted on. Just as article pointed out, Haze of Finance covers everything. That may mean smarter, brighter people will go to finance in Toronto, or go south work on exciting projects. One great thing Toronto, has rest of Canada has less of, it 'lets do it' attitude. Whats hindering it though, very canadian attitude to seek consensus. We like to get permission, something disruptive business models do go against. It seems there is a lot of hurdles Toronto has to overcome before making it huge as an IT Startup Hub. I believe New York is also having some sort of cultural issues as well in trying to grow up as the fertile place for starups. [ Its this whole east coast thing :) ] my 2c
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  Admittedly anecdotal, but I found for me, after taking into account higher cost of living and higher payroll taxes in the US, the pay scales are comparable.
danielnicollet 16y ago
Agreed. This is very true of many wannabe SVs. I worke in the Bay Area (Mountain View, Palo Alto, San Francisco, Redwood City) for 10 years. I then moved to Europe following a trail of jobs (London, Lyon, Paris) and I now live and work still in software in Portland Oregon. There is nothing like the Silicon Valley. Every city or metro area who tries to mimic its unique ecosystem is better off charting its own trail with a different approach I think. There is only room for one Silicon Valley but other metros can create a unique distinctive environment for very focused types of industries (Open source in Portland for instance - Linus T. even chose to live here ;-) Also, not every senior software person wants to deal with the Bay Area's urban and suburban environment ; and the lack of diversity (non-tech industries) it certainly features.
potatolicious 16y ago
> *"I've watched many of our best business/tech minds get sucked south of the border" This is something a lot of Canadians do not realize. I don't consider myself the best, but I am currently south of the border because the going pay is nearly twice what anybody in Canada is willing to offer (note: I am fairly young). I've seen senior folk drift back to Canada - as you age your own health care, as well as that of your family, makes the USA less attractive overall. Hell, many of my most talented peers from school in Canada are now State-side - the brain drain is real, and it is indeed massive.
elblanco 16y ago
As an American, who's tried for years to do business in Canada. The appetite to purchase stuff is strangely not there. I found similar stories amongst colleagues in other companies as well. Endless demos, pitches and such, just like you might do anywhere else -- but almost never a P.O. at the end of the process. I've had far more success in Australia, and I've heard similar as well. I only bring the Aussies in because of the similar population dynamics, small population, large land area, a few major metro areas. I can only imagine that it's similar north of the border, trying to do business internally, as well.

by kitcar 16y ago

perlpimp 16y ago

Very true, payscale just doesn't match to what the offerings are south of the border. Some say there more attraction for 'senior' talent - with families,with reliable and free healthcare and fairly family friendly city. That is however not what startups need. They need daring fresh talent, and such talent requires a fertile soil to be planted on. Just as article pointed out, Haze of Finance covers everything. That may mean smarter, brighter people will go to finance in Toronto, or go south work on exciting projects. One great thing Toronto, has rest of Canada has less of, it 'lets do it' attitude. Whats hindering it though, very canadian attitude to seek consensus. We like to get permission, something disruptive business models do go against. It seems there is a lot of hurdles Toronto has to overcome before making it huge as an IT Startup Hub. I believe New York is also having some sort of cultural issues as well in trying to grow up as the fertile place for starups. [ Its this whole east coast thing :) ] my 2c

ojbyrne 16y ago
Admittedly anecdotal, but I found for me, after taking into account higher cost of living and higher payroll taxes in the US, the pay scales are comparable.

danielnicollet 16y ago

Agreed. This is very true of many wannabe SVs. I worke in the Bay Area (Mountain View, Palo Alto, San Francisco, Redwood City) for 10 years. I then moved to Europe following a trail of jobs (London, Lyon, Paris) and I now live and work still in software in Portland Oregon. There is nothing like the Silicon Valley. Every city or metro area who tries to mimic its unique ecosystem is better off charting its own trail with a different approach I think. There is only room for one Silicon Valley but other metros can create a unique distinctive environment for very focused types of industries (Open source in Portland for instance - Linus T. even chose to live here ;-) Also, not every senior software person wants to deal with the Bay Area's urban and suburban environment ; and the lack of diversity (non-tech industries) it certainly features.

potatolicious 16y ago

> *"I've watched many of our best business/tech minds get sucked south of the border" This is something a lot of Canadians do not realize. I don't consider myself the best, but I am currently south of the border because the going pay is nearly twice what anybody in Canada is willing to offer (note: I am fairly young). I've seen senior folk drift back to Canada - as you age your own health care, as well as that of your family, makes the USA less attractive overall. Hell, many of my most talented peers from school in Canada are now State-side - the brain drain is real, and it is indeed massive.

elblanco 16y ago

As an American, who's tried for years to do business in Canada. The appetite to purchase stuff is strangely not there. I found similar stories amongst colleagues in other companies as well. Endless demos, pitches and such, just like you might do anywhere else -- but almost never a P.O. at the end of the process. I've had far more success in Australia, and I've heard similar as well. I only bring the Aussies in because of the similar population dynamics, small population, large land area, a few major metro areas. I can only imagine that it's similar north of the border, trying to do business internally, as well.