4 ms·

What makes you think that markets would be any good at sorting things out? The externalities of car usage (such as air and noise pollution, traffic accident vic

by pg314 10y ago

What makes you think that markets would be any good at sorting things out? The externalities of car usage (such as air and noise pollution, traffic accident victims) are ignored by the free market. Furthermore, the 'traffic' market has a tendency towards monopolies: more people using cars means less people using public transportation making the latter less profitable, resulting in worse service, leading to even less people using it... Free markets need very specific conditions to lead to the optimal solution. I don't think the transportation market fits the requirements.

baddox 10y ago
Air and noise pollution are probably reasonable examples, but I don't think traffic accident victims are.
- pg314 10y ago
  Why do you think traffic accident victims are not reasonable examples of negative externalities of cars? As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread: 35.000 motor vehicle deaths in 2015 in the US alone [1]. According to the US department of transportation [2], the total economic cost of motor vehicle crashes in 2010 is estimated to have been $242.0 billion. I don't see how you can reasonably ignore that in any discussion about transportation and cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i... [2] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812013 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...
  - baddox 10y ago
    I don't think they're an example of something that markets would be unlikely to handle. I suspect any system of private roads would at the bare minimum require liability insurance.
    - pg314 10y ago
      Interesting perspective. Now I understand what you're saying. I think it would be dubious that private roads would require liability insurance. At present, liability insurance is only widespread because of regulation (i.e. a non-market mechanism). I do not see the economic case for the owner of the road to require liability insurance of its users. Insurance wouldn't cover the full cost either. According to [2], total car insurance losses were $117.5 billion in 2011, compared to the $242.0 billion in economic losses cited in my previous post. [1] https://www.ibisworld.com/industry/automobile-insurance.html https://www.ibisworld.com/industry/automobile-insurance.html [2] http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/auto-insurance http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/auto-insurance

by pg314 10y ago

baddox 10y ago

Air and noise pollution are probably reasonable examples, but I don't think traffic accident victims are.

pg314 10y ago
Why do you think traffic accident victims are not reasonable examples of negative externalities of cars? As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread: 35.000 motor vehicle deaths in 2015 in the US alone [1]. According to the US department of transportation [2], the total economic cost of motor vehicle crashes in 2010 is estimated to have been $242.0 billion. I don't see how you can reasonably ignore that in any discussion about transportation and cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i... [2] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812013 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...
- baddox 10y ago
  I don't think they're an example of something that markets would be unlikely to handle. I suspect any system of private roads would at the bare minimum require liability insurance.
  - pg314 10y ago
    Interesting perspective. Now I understand what you're saying. I think it would be dubious that private roads would require liability insurance. At present, liability insurance is only widespread because of regulation (i.e. a non-market mechanism). I do not see the economic case for the owner of the road to require liability insurance of its users. Insurance wouldn't cover the full cost either. According to [2], total car insurance losses were $117.5 billion in 2011, compared to the $242.0 billion in economic losses cited in my previous post. [1] https://www.ibisworld.com/industry/automobile-insurance.html https://www.ibisworld.com/industry/automobile-insurance.html [2] http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/auto-insurance http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/auto-insurance