4 ms·

Then remove the regulation that requires developers to bear the cost of building parking spaces and simply let merchants choose to pay to build them if they wan

by imgabe 10y ago

Then remove the regulation that requires developers to bear the cost of building parking spaces and simply let merchants choose to pay to build them if they want to. Some merchants may feel that the additional cost of a parking structure is worthwhile, others may not. The market will sort out which ones are correct.

saurik 10y ago
(I am an elected politician on the Board of Directors of a special district, one power of which is related to residential parking permits, and am additionally on a community committee working on improving the parking situation in the business area; my job on this committee is to do the actual outreach to local businesses. Note also that I am someone who believes in decreasing the use of cars.) Your suggestion essentially turns into a game theory problem of "is it better to construct parking for my business or be located next to a business that was dumb enough to construct parking, as many of my customers who really would have wanted parking will end up just parking there, they will get the ire of anyone who actually gets towed, and that assumes they also have any good mechanism to decide who to tow anyway.
- TJ-14 10y ago
  In my city it's common for large retailers to provide parking lots at a cost. If you buy something, the cashier gives you a stamp that nulls your parking charge. Anyone can park, but free for customers. There's ways to game it, but it seems a workable solution.
  - narrowrail 10y ago
    I've only seen parking validation for private garages. Are your parking spaces owned by the city, and retailers can still validate for downtown, on-street parking?
- wbl 10y ago
  Parking lots can exclude people. It isn't a public good.
  - baddox 10y ago
    And in what is probably the first mental association most people have with parking lots, they're also rivalrous.
  - saurik 10y ago
    Right. That is, in fact, the point, and why the suggestion to remove regulations and to just let the market regulate parking ends in combat and a bunch of people trying to game theory each other's parking... the result is everyone hates each other and is clearly unfair (if potentially efficient).
    - wbl 10y ago
      Imagine the horrors if we let the market regulate cabinet space in your kitchen. Once you remove the subsidy people pay to park. What is so unfair about that?
- ak217 10y ago
  Requiring each building in a business area to have its own attached parking is a great way to perpetuate sprawl. Successful walkable business districts either use metered street parking, or intercept cars in parking lots at a stand-off distance away from the shops themselves. This amortizes the parking load among the shops. If that sounds a lot like a mall, it is, but I'd advocate for also removing the zoning restrictions that segregate residential condos from business (a really stupid decision that many American cities keep perpetuating).
  - saurik 10y ago
    This is a different suggestion: removing parking at businesses and centralizing it using government (which does not lead to the problem I mentioned).
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      Maybe we could place that government parking on the sides of existing roads; we could automate the payment process with small devices mounted on posts that could take coins (or in some places, cards or mobile payments). For people who don't pay, we could have city employees walk around and issue fines for non-compliance...
- mahyarm 10y ago
  In my hometown's downtown we have large parking towers that provide parking at fairly cheap rates. In the city owned one, the first hour is free. It's actually a lot more convenient than hunting for parking at area X, hoping there is street side parking or a parking lot. We also get a walkable downtown as a result too. So instead of requiring a business to have parking, ban the creation of parking and mandate the creation of parking towers or lots financed by business property taxes instead. You get denser, nicer downtowns as a result. You can similarly socialize parking in less dense areas by banning business from having free parking lots and making a few city ones instead.
  - saurik 10y ago
    I agree: the suggestion I was replying to was to remove regulation and try to let the market come up with parking, which this suggestion is clearly not anything similar to ;P.
taurath 10y ago
Then nobody will go through the expense of building any parking for their development, after which everyone suffers. New owners will have to build parking simply to exist in the space, and a great gap forms between affordability for owners who were there before vs new owners coming in - less traffic means all the businesses suffer.

by imgabe 10y ago

saurik 10y ago

(I am an elected politician on the Board of Directors of a special district, one power of which is related to residential parking permits, and am additionally on a community committee working on improving the parking situation in the business area; my job on this committee is to do the actual outreach to local businesses. Note also that I am someone who believes in decreasing the use of cars.) Your suggestion essentially turns into a game theory problem of "is it better to construct parking for my business or be located next to a business that was dumb enough to construct parking, as many of my customers who really would have wanted parking will end up just parking there, they will get the ire of anyone who actually gets towed, and that assumes they also have any good mechanism to decide who to tow anyway.

TJ-14 10y ago
In my city it's common for large retailers to provide parking lots at a cost. If you buy something, the cashier gives you a stamp that nulls your parking charge. Anyone can park, but free for customers. There's ways to game it, but it seems a workable solution.
- narrowrail 10y ago
  I've only seen parking validation for private garages. Are your parking spaces owned by the city, and retailers can still validate for downtown, on-street parking?
wbl 10y ago
Parking lots can exclude people. It isn't a public good.
- baddox 10y ago
  And in what is probably the first mental association most people have with parking lots, they're also rivalrous.
- saurik 10y ago
  Right. That is, in fact, the point, and why the suggestion to remove regulations and to just let the market regulate parking ends in combat and a bunch of people trying to game theory each other's parking... the result is everyone hates each other and is clearly unfair (if potentially efficient).
  - wbl 10y ago
    Imagine the horrors if we let the market regulate cabinet space in your kitchen. Once you remove the subsidy people pay to park. What is so unfair about that?
ak217 10y ago
Requiring each building in a business area to have its own attached parking is a great way to perpetuate sprawl. Successful walkable business districts either use metered street parking, or intercept cars in parking lots at a stand-off distance away from the shops themselves. This amortizes the parking load among the shops. If that sounds a lot like a mall, it is, but I'd advocate for also removing the zoning restrictions that segregate residential condos from business (a really stupid decision that many American cities keep perpetuating).
- saurik 10y ago
  This is a different suggestion: removing parking at businesses and centralizing it using government (which does not lead to the problem I mentioned).
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Maybe we could place that government parking on the sides of existing roads; we could automate the payment process with small devices mounted on posts that could take coins (or in some places, cards or mobile payments). For people who don't pay, we could have city employees walk around and issue fines for non-compliance...
mahyarm 10y ago
In my hometown's downtown we have large parking towers that provide parking at fairly cheap rates. In the city owned one, the first hour is free. It's actually a lot more convenient than hunting for parking at area X, hoping there is street side parking or a parking lot. We also get a walkable downtown as a result too. So instead of requiring a business to have parking, ban the creation of parking and mandate the creation of parking towers or lots financed by business property taxes instead. You get denser, nicer downtowns as a result. You can similarly socialize parking in less dense areas by banning business from having free parking lots and making a few city ones instead.
- saurik 10y ago
  I agree: the suggestion I was replying to was to remove regulation and try to let the market come up with parking, which this suggestion is clearly not anything similar to ;P.

taurath 10y ago

Then nobody will go through the expense of building any parking for their development, after which everyone suffers. New owners will have to build parking simply to exist in the space, and a great gap forms between affordability for owners who were there before vs new owners coming in - less traffic means all the businesses suffer.