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I love public transportation, so let me disagree. :) a) near zero latency to take a trip I can take the subway and go home at any station. If I go by car I hav

by kartan 10y ago

I love public transportation, so let me disagree. :) a) near zero latency to take a trip I can take the subway and go home at any station. If I go by car I have to go back to the place the car is to be able to return home. b) proportional penalty for leaving late: if you miss a bus or a train by 10 seconds, you have to wait for the next one, which can be an hour. This is true if you favor private cars over public transportation. The more people uses the bus, the more buses there are, and they come more often (in rush hours you can take a subway each 5 minutes). The problem solves itself. c) availability: a personal car generally provides the same service during the day, at night, and can be used in rain and mild snow (heavy snow, if properly equipped). Yes, at night there is less public transportation. But at night there are no "traffic jams" either. When your needs are completely different that the rest of the population then a private car makes a lot of sense. This should be the main use. d) flexibility/directness: a personal car can drive to almost everywhere, and can generally take a fairly direct route. But usually, people don't want to drive everywhere. Most people wants the same route that everybody else. That's why you have "traffic jams" in the first place. It is the same case that c), if your needs are so different that the rest of the population a private car makes a lot of sense. In all cities I have lived (Barcelona, London, Stockholm) by far the best option was to use public transportation.

hedora 10y ago
In the SF Bay Area (which is mentioned in the article), they have repeatedly cut back or held capacities constant for both the freeway system and public transit. This benefits no one except people that own houses near job centers (since it increases real estate pricing discrepancies). Due to the local political structure, small town governments are able to sabotage the entire region's transportation network, perpetuating the problem. The NIMBY's that support this use studies liked the linked one to justify this behavior (which is rent-seeking at best and racial/economic discrimination at worst). I believe things are better where you live; I'm just trying to explain why your comments are controversial with the HN crowd. Personally, I'd like more roads, parking, public transit, and bike lanes. It would alleviate some of the housing pressure in Silicon Valley, lowering real estate costs, which would improve the quality of service industries, increase the efficiency with which VC money is spent, and generally enable more startups.
- drdeadringer 10y ago
  I live in the bay area and have been using transit as my prime method of powered transportation for several years now. Since I've not heard the news, what cuts in transit have been made?
eloisant 10y ago
In addition, public transportation (train and metro in particular, it's less true for bus) will give you a predictable time of arrival. You know that by taking this train, you'll arrive at your destination by that time. With you personal vehicle, you might be stuck in traffic, have to circle before finding a spot or find a spot much farther than you expected and have a longer walk to do.
jfroma 10y ago
Where I live the more people uses the buses the more packed the buses go, no chances to get more or better buses. I don't disagree with you but the cities you have lived in are developed cities, which are not the norm.
closeparen 10y ago
The more people use the bus, the more crowded it gets, the more likely you are to be denied boarding due to crowding. My most direct bus route to work has actually migrated to lower capacity vehicles in the face of exponentially growing ridership, with no schedule changes. I could forgive this if AC Transit were out of money, but they're launching a ton of new service on obscure routes. They just don't seem interested in boosting capacity or frequency on the popular ones.
baddox 10y ago
> The more people uses the bus, the more buses there are, and they come more often (in rush hours you can take a subway each 5 minutes). The problem solves itself. Unfortunately I only have direct control over my own actions, and very limited ability to influence the actions of other travelers or politicians. This isn't really an argument against the original commenter's point. If I get rid of my car and switch to public transportation, maybe on average the wait between buses drops from 1 hour to a millisecond less than an hour.
vacri 10y ago
> The more people uses the bus, the more buses there are, and they come more often Can you tell Melbourne this, because our population is growing rapidly (~2000/week) and our public transport was once decent, but is now resembling a sardine tin factory. It's been a constant story in the papers for a decade.

by kartan 10y ago

hedora 10y ago

In the SF Bay Area (which is mentioned in the article), they have repeatedly cut back or held capacities constant for both the freeway system and public transit. This benefits no one except people that own houses near job centers (since it increases real estate pricing discrepancies). Due to the local political structure, small town governments are able to sabotage the entire region's transportation network, perpetuating the problem. The NIMBY's that support this use studies liked the linked one to justify this behavior (which is rent-seeking at best and racial/economic discrimination at worst). I believe things are better where you live; I'm just trying to explain why your comments are controversial with the HN crowd. Personally, I'd like more roads, parking, public transit, and bike lanes. It would alleviate some of the housing pressure in Silicon Valley, lowering real estate costs, which would improve the quality of service industries, increase the efficiency with which VC money is spent, and generally enable more startups.

drdeadringer 10y ago
I live in the bay area and have been using transit as my prime method of powered transportation for several years now. Since I've not heard the news, what cuts in transit have been made?

eloisant 10y ago

In addition, public transportation (train and metro in particular, it's less true for bus) will give you a predictable time of arrival. You know that by taking this train, you'll arrive at your destination by that time. With you personal vehicle, you might be stuck in traffic, have to circle before finding a spot or find a spot much farther than you expected and have a longer walk to do.

jfroma 10y ago

Where I live the more people uses the buses the more packed the buses go, no chances to get more or better buses. I don't disagree with you but the cities you have lived in are developed cities, which are not the norm.

closeparen 10y ago

The more people use the bus, the more crowded it gets, the more likely you are to be denied boarding due to crowding. My most direct bus route to work has actually migrated to lower capacity vehicles in the face of exponentially growing ridership, with no schedule changes. I could forgive this if AC Transit were out of money, but they're launching a ton of new service on obscure routes. They just don't seem interested in boosting capacity or frequency on the popular ones.

baddox 10y ago

> The more people uses the bus, the more buses there are, and they come more often (in rush hours you can take a subway each 5 minutes). The problem solves itself. Unfortunately I only have direct control over my own actions, and very limited ability to influence the actions of other travelers or politicians. This isn't really an argument against the original commenter's point. If I get rid of my car and switch to public transportation, maybe on average the wait between buses drops from 1 hour to a millisecond less than an hour.

vacri 10y ago

> The more people uses the bus, the more buses there are, and they come more often Can you tell Melbourne this, because our population is growing rapidly (~2000/week) and our public transport was once decent, but is now resembling a sardine tin factory. It's been a constant story in the papers for a decade.