4 ms·

Also: a) people have kids b) people need to drive somebody who is not able to table public transportation (sick, old, disabled, etc.) In other words, yes: if

by tlogan 10y ago

Also: a) people have kids b) people need to drive somebody who is not able to table public transportation (sick, old, disabled, etc.) In other words, yes: if you allow only rich people to drive to come certain location (by not providing free parking, etc.) then there will be no traffic jams. Middle class will move to suburbs...

stouset 10y ago
And yet somehow this doesn't seem to be that big a problem in the rest of the developed world that has functioning public transit. Children and the elderly are, unsurprisingly, more than capable of riding on a bus or train. And taxing a taxi (or Uber, Lyft, etc.) when the occasion requires.
- TillE 10y ago
  It really is amazing how many Americans seem completely unaware how the rest of the world lives. You see it really acutely in pro-suburbia arguments on HN, and weird objections to universal healthcare around the internet, as if this was all totally hypothetical and we didn't have concrete examples of how it works.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    That may be true, but there are also a lot of sweeping generalizations about how the US is totally different from every other developed country when it comes to car ownership. In fact, the percentage of households that own cars in the US is not that different from either other wealthy Western democracies, Japan, or South Korea. (China and Russia are both much lower.) http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-motorcycle-depends-on-where-you-live/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-...
    - yongjik 10y ago
      A more relevant metric would be how often the car is used: there's a difference between having a family car you use for weekend trips and occasional trip to Costco, and having to drive your kids to school every morning.
      - hexane360 10y ago
        And limiting our measurements to cities. Otherwise it becomes a measurement of "who has more rural and suburban areas" instead of "who uses more public transit in urban areas".
  - CydeWeys 10y ago
    You can tell that they haven't even spent any real time in Manhattan, right here in the US! No rest of the world is even necessary. All of the "positives" of individual personal transportation quickly turn into negatives when everyone else is simultaneously trying to avail themselves of them in a dense, congested city. Then you realize that trying to have a car in the middle of a big city is more hassle than it's worth, and that walking, biking, public transit, and ubiquitous cabs actually work quite well, way better than individual cars could ever work in such conditions. So yes, we've got suburban Americans who can't even conceptualize what life is like in our biggest city, despite it being a constant subject in pop culture.
    - ams6110 10y ago
      > trying to have a car in the middle of a big city is more hassle than it's worth I've lived in Chicago, and came to the same conclusion. I like having a car so that's one of the reasons I don't live there anymore. But most of the US is not big cities. Yet even in modest sized towns you see people advocating for public transit and bike lanes, etc. where they will never be used enough to justify the taxpayer expense.
      - CydeWeys 10y ago
        I disagree with you on justifying the public expense. Bike lanes increase safety, both for cyclists and pedestrians. One preventable death is worth many millions of dollars. Bike lanes are incredibly cheap when all externalities are factored in. EDIT: Also, we spend far, far more money on our road infrastructure than on all public transit combined. You are looking at the cost of public transit but assuming that roads were/are free. They are not. Taking steps towards equalizing funding levels between the two would go a great ways towards making public transit better while remaining revenue neutral.
    - baddox 10y ago
      I'm not sure why you both conclude that people are unaware that public transportation works well in some cities and countries. I'm aware of that, but it's not relevant to my own ability to travel if I don't live in one of those areas. Could I move? Sure, but if everyone who complains about traffic or public transportation moved to Manhattan I suspect Manhattan's infrastructure would no longer perform so well.

by tlogan 10y ago

stouset 10y ago

And yet somehow this doesn't seem to be that big a problem in the rest of the developed world that has functioning public transit. Children and the elderly are, unsurprisingly, more than capable of riding on a bus or train. And taxing a taxi (or Uber, Lyft, etc.) when the occasion requires.

TillE 10y ago
It really is amazing how many Americans seem completely unaware how the rest of the world lives. You see it really acutely in pro-suburbia arguments on HN, and weird objections to universal healthcare around the internet, as if this was all totally hypothetical and we didn't have concrete examples of how it works.
- ghaff 10y ago
  That may be true, but there are also a lot of sweeping generalizations about how the US is totally different from every other developed country when it comes to car ownership. In fact, the percentage of households that own cars in the US is not that different from either other wealthy Western democracies, Japan, or South Korea. (China and Russia are both much lower.) http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-motorcycle-depends-on-where-you-live/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-...
  - yongjik 10y ago
    A more relevant metric would be how often the car is used: there's a difference between having a family car you use for weekend trips and occasional trip to Costco, and having to drive your kids to school every morning.
    - hexane360 10y ago
      And limiting our measurements to cities. Otherwise it becomes a measurement of "who has more rural and suburban areas" instead of "who uses more public transit in urban areas".
- CydeWeys 10y ago
  You can tell that they haven't even spent any real time in Manhattan, right here in the US! No rest of the world is even necessary. All of the "positives" of individual personal transportation quickly turn into negatives when everyone else is simultaneously trying to avail themselves of them in a dense, congested city. Then you realize that trying to have a car in the middle of a big city is more hassle than it's worth, and that walking, biking, public transit, and ubiquitous cabs actually work quite well, way better than individual cars could ever work in such conditions. So yes, we've got suburban Americans who can't even conceptualize what life is like in our biggest city, despite it being a constant subject in pop culture.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    > trying to have a car in the middle of a big city is more hassle than it's worth I've lived in Chicago, and came to the same conclusion. I like having a car so that's one of the reasons I don't live there anymore. But most of the US is not big cities. Yet even in modest sized towns you see people advocating for public transit and bike lanes, etc. where they will never be used enough to justify the taxpayer expense.
    - CydeWeys 10y ago
      I disagree with you on justifying the public expense. Bike lanes increase safety, both for cyclists and pedestrians. One preventable death is worth many millions of dollars. Bike lanes are incredibly cheap when all externalities are factored in. EDIT: Also, we spend far, far more money on our road infrastructure than on all public transit combined. You are looking at the cost of public transit but assuming that roads were/are free. They are not. Taking steps towards equalizing funding levels between the two would go a great ways towards making public transit better while remaining revenue neutral.
  - baddox 10y ago
    I'm not sure why you both conclude that people are unaware that public transportation works well in some cities and countries. I'm aware of that, but it's not relevant to my own ability to travel if I don't live in one of those areas. Could I move? Sure, but if everyone who complains about traffic or public transportation moved to Manhattan I suspect Manhattan's infrastructure would no longer perform so well.