3 ms·

Java is very simple and has, hands down, the best tooling of any major language out today. That is why it is the most popular. Java isn't my favorite language,

Java is very simple and has, hands down, the best tooling of any major language out today. That is why it is the most popular. Java isn't my favorite language, but even I can remove my blinders enough to see its strengths.

TylerE 10y ago
Say what? The words that come to mind when I think of Java tooling is certainly not "best". More like "Bloated, slow, too-fscking-much-XML"
- koko775 10y ago
  Maybe you're a better programmer than you are a configure-r. But its tooling is insanely, insanely good.
- jnordwick 10y ago
  XML? That's probable Spring. I hate that thing. But Java's tooling for monitoring is crazy good. The benchmarking harness that gives back the assembly code generated for hot code, unmatched on any other non-native language. The editors and how good hinting and auto-complete are, I don't know of another language that integrates so well. Java really raised the bar on tooling and other languages/platforms have really had to drive hard to get just a close comparable place.
  - homarp 10y ago
    try spring boot. not a line of xml :) https://spring.io/guides/gs/spring-boot/ https://spring.io/guides/gs/spring-boot/
    - jnordwick 10y ago
      A quote I found one time, can't remember who: "When your framework has a framework, there's a problem."
- Too 10y ago
  Name another language + tooling ecosystem where you can do ALL of: * Perform automatic refactoring of a 100k+ LOC project and be confident that absolutely nothing breaks. * Reliable edit and continue in the debugger. * Fast incremental compile times. * Easily pull in third party libraries without messing with include-dirs, link-dirs and whatnot, and automatically get the documentation built in and ready for autocompletion. I won't list all other things you can do but no other popular language even come close to the tooling of Java or C#. C and C++ has too many different build systems and too much lazy evaluated templates and typecasts for the IDEs to handle well. Python, Ruby, JS, PHP...well they are all dynamic so good luck with fancy IDE features.
  - TylerE 10y ago
    Do not go up against Erlang. You will lose.
    - jnordwick 10y ago
      Erlang as some pretty dope tooling, but still Java has a much larger selection and some low-level tools that are just fantastic for performance (JMH is one of my favorites).
  - tracker1 10y ago
    Spend a week trying to get the project to actually run on a computer, with a project you haven't touched before...
- StevePerkins 10y ago
  Whenever someone brings up XML as a critique of Java, they might as well be saying, "I haven't glanced at Java in well over a decade". There's just no faster route to completely discrediting yourself in eyes of anyone who's actually used it recently.
protomyth 10y ago
Java had a full court press advertising campaign with powerful partners at a time when 'web' was the new thing and it was going to be that language. The superior support and tooling was a result and sustains it to this day.

TylerE 10y ago

Say what? The words that come to mind when I think of Java tooling is certainly not "best". More like "Bloated, slow, too-fscking-much-XML"

koko775 10y ago
Maybe you're a better programmer than you are a configure-r. But its tooling is insanely, insanely good.
jnordwick 10y ago
XML? That's probable Spring. I hate that thing. But Java's tooling for monitoring is crazy good. The benchmarking harness that gives back the assembly code generated for hot code, unmatched on any other non-native language. The editors and how good hinting and auto-complete are, I don't know of another language that integrates so well. Java really raised the bar on tooling and other languages/platforms have really had to drive hard to get just a close comparable place.
- homarp 10y ago
  try spring boot. not a line of xml :) https://spring.io/guides/gs/spring-boot/ https://spring.io/guides/gs/spring-boot/
  - jnordwick 10y ago
    A quote I found one time, can't remember who: "When your framework has a framework, there's a problem."
Too 10y ago
Name another language + tooling ecosystem where you can do ALL of: * Perform automatic refactoring of a 100k+ LOC project and be confident that absolutely nothing breaks. * Reliable edit and continue in the debugger. * Fast incremental compile times. * Easily pull in third party libraries without messing with include-dirs, link-dirs and whatnot, and automatically get the documentation built in and ready for autocompletion. I won't list all other things you can do but no other popular language even come close to the tooling of Java or C#. C and C++ has too many different build systems and too much lazy evaluated templates and typecasts for the IDEs to handle well. Python, Ruby, JS, PHP...well they are all dynamic so good luck with fancy IDE features.
- TylerE 10y ago
  Do not go up against Erlang. You will lose.
  - jnordwick 10y ago
    Erlang as some pretty dope tooling, but still Java has a much larger selection and some low-level tools that are just fantastic for performance (JMH is one of my favorites).
- tracker1 10y ago
  Spend a week trying to get the project to actually run on a computer, with a project you haven't touched before...
StevePerkins 10y ago
Whenever someone brings up XML as a critique of Java, they might as well be saying, "I haven't glanced at Java in well over a decade". There's just no faster route to completely discrediting yourself in eyes of anyone who's actually used it recently.

protomyth 10y ago

Java had a full court press advertising campaign with powerful partners at a time when 'web' was the new thing and it was going to be that language. The superior support and tooling was a result and sustains it to this day.