5 ms·

UO was great back in the day as was Shadowbane. The whole safe places that MMO's became - and with good reason as more people liked that - disappointed me abou

by nemo44x 10y ago

UO was great back in the day as was Shadowbane. The whole safe places that MMO's became - and with good reason as more people liked that - disappointed me about the genre. The player motivated politics and maneuvering and real threat to lose what you've worked hard for and the general scarcity of things in these types of games was unbelievable. Stealing, fighting for meaningful resources and guilds that existed to actually protect resources and players is just not possible in a game like WoW (was very good for different reasons though such as dungeon raiding) and derivatives where getting attacked and killed is meaningless.

vvanders 10y ago
Shadowbane, that's a word I haven't heard in a while. I think these days EVE is the only one carrying on the torch of that sub-genre.
- nemo44x 10y ago
  Yeah seriously going back a bit there on a rather obscure, buggy game. For all its flaws, which were many, the experience overall was exhilarating. Never played EVE but yeah it's the only game I'm aware of that has these types of dynamics.
  - samstave 10y ago
    did you guys ever read that story, which I believe I found on HN, about the guy who live in SF and wa basically the EVE accountant and manager for an EVE sydicated where he didnt play the game, but just managed monies and logistics? Ill have to find the link.
samstave 10y ago
That is an interesting comment... WRT game philsophy, one might say WOW is combat focused (dungeon raids) where UO was much more personal-politcs focused (with the combat) and thus I think UO to be an 11 and wow an 8... regardless of how much $$ WOW has made... it is detracted by the fact that its massive, dedicated, userbase has never experienced original UO...
- nemo44x 10y ago
  Indeed. WoW was great for that and I enjoyed it but there was always a piece missing. The politics of games like UO and Shadowbane where a thief stealing a single valuable item from some folks farming for the guild could set off a huge war with backstabbing and deceit and alliances and everything else really made those games dramatic and fun. Yeah you'd lose your stuff sometimes too and the most scary thing in the game was seeing a group of players from an aggressive guild descending on your farming and XP group. Everyone would scatter like buffalo being hunted by a group of lions. It was hard to setup towns near valuable farming resources and there would be battles for dominance. All the different player personalities would take on different roles that appealed to them in a guild - some where the leaders who worked out deals and alliances; others were social butterflies who like to chat and farm; others liked to help harass enemies and some were mercenaries ready to work for whoever paid them. And other people enjoyed going solo as a thief and hated by all but other thieves. It was a world only as good as the players could make it with what felt like real consequence to decisions and actions. Trust mattered.
- nemo44x 10y ago
  I'll add that I don't think a game like that can ever really exist again. At least not with the dynamic those games had. At the time there were no other options for people who wanted to play an MMO. You had to enter that world. So it was made up of all types of people but mainly you could break the community into 2 groups: Wolves and Sheep. There were always plenty of sheep for the wolves to hunt for and terrorize and for the "hero wolves" to come in and protect. The relationships were real. As soon as WoW came out anyone who preferred the sheep role (farming, socializing, building community, etc) had no reason to play a game they could be killed and have their spoils taken. It became a hassle when WoW gave them a peaceful world to coexist in. Where your enemy couldn't really hurt you or take anything you've worked for. A nice, safe space. The wolf types just became the hard core raiders competing to get eventual identical gear first and the sheep were the casual raiders and farmers and social butterflies.
  - samstave 10y ago
    >I'll add that I don't think a game like that can ever really exist again I agree with this sentiment 100%

by nemo44x 10y ago

vvanders 10y ago

Shadowbane, that's a word I haven't heard in a while. I think these days EVE is the only one carrying on the torch of that sub-genre.

nemo44x 10y ago
Yeah seriously going back a bit there on a rather obscure, buggy game. For all its flaws, which were many, the experience overall was exhilarating. Never played EVE but yeah it's the only game I'm aware of that has these types of dynamics.
- samstave 10y ago
  did you guys ever read that story, which I believe I found on HN, about the guy who live in SF and wa basically the EVE accountant and manager for an EVE sydicated where he didnt play the game, but just managed monies and logistics? Ill have to find the link.

samstave 10y ago

That is an interesting comment... WRT game philsophy, one might say WOW is combat focused (dungeon raids) where UO was much more personal-politcs focused (with the combat) and thus I think UO to be an 11 and wow an 8... regardless of how much $$ WOW has made... it is detracted by the fact that its massive, dedicated, userbase has never experienced original UO...

nemo44x 10y ago
Indeed. WoW was great for that and I enjoyed it but there was always a piece missing. The politics of games like UO and Shadowbane where a thief stealing a single valuable item from some folks farming for the guild could set off a huge war with backstabbing and deceit and alliances and everything else really made those games dramatic and fun. Yeah you'd lose your stuff sometimes too and the most scary thing in the game was seeing a group of players from an aggressive guild descending on your farming and XP group. Everyone would scatter like buffalo being hunted by a group of lions. It was hard to setup towns near valuable farming resources and there would be battles for dominance. All the different player personalities would take on different roles that appealed to them in a guild - some where the leaders who worked out deals and alliances; others were social butterflies who like to chat and farm; others liked to help harass enemies and some were mercenaries ready to work for whoever paid them. And other people enjoyed going solo as a thief and hated by all but other thieves. It was a world only as good as the players could make it with what felt like real consequence to decisions and actions. Trust mattered.
nemo44x 10y ago
I'll add that I don't think a game like that can ever really exist again. At least not with the dynamic those games had. At the time there were no other options for people who wanted to play an MMO. You had to enter that world. So it was made up of all types of people but mainly you could break the community into 2 groups: Wolves and Sheep. There were always plenty of sheep for the wolves to hunt for and terrorize and for the "hero wolves" to come in and protect. The relationships were real. As soon as WoW came out anyone who preferred the sheep role (farming, socializing, building community, etc) had no reason to play a game they could be killed and have their spoils taken. It became a hassle when WoW gave them a peaceful world to coexist in. Where your enemy couldn't really hurt you or take anything you've worked for. A nice, safe space. The wolf types just became the hard core raiders competing to get eventual identical gear first and the sheep were the casual raiders and farmers and social butterflies.
- samstave 10y ago
  >I'll add that I don't think a game like that can ever really exist again I agree with this sentiment 100%