4 ms·

Yes, people who buy Macs place enormous value on having a flat, nondescript image of a piece of fruit on their computers. We are all massive brand whores, and t

Yes, people who buy Macs place enormous value on having a flat, nondescript image of a piece of fruit on their computers. We are all massive brand whores, and there has never been anything compelling about the design of Macs. Also, Linux users, and you especially, are extremely representative of the market for computers.

etherael 16y ago
touche and a riposte, I'm well aware I'm not representative of the market for computers, but if you're here this probably applies to you also. So whilst you and the audience of mac users here may not be a massive brandwhore, that doesn't invalidate the point that a significant amount of the mac userbase actually are. And when you have a company that is selling fundamentally the same product with a different label on it and marking it up 40%, yes, that does tend to be the difference. Maybe back in the Power PC days you had a point, but what's inside the magnesium case is now pretty much the same as what's inside the black plastic one.
- dieterrams 16y ago
  Ignoring the fact that the hardware design is widely lauded as outpacing the competition, your argument is sort of like saying that two books are fundamentally the same if they're made of the same materials. Most users could care less if the computer's running on an x86 or PowerPC chip: everything is ultimately subordinate to user experience, cost, availability of desirable software, and interoperability. (At least two of those are highly contingent on the individual user: cost and availability of desirable software. If you're a heavy PC gamer, a Windows PC remains much more desirable than a Mac overall.) Historically, Macs have owned user experience, but lost on everything else. These days, cost is still relatively high (although historically lower, given the drop in component prices), but the other things have gotten better. Growth of the web, cross-platform file formats, ability to run Windows on Mac hardware, shift in gaming from PCs to consoles, etc. have done a lot to mitigate the disadvantages of Macs. This, by the way, is coming from someone who'd been using DOS and Windows up until a few years ago.
  - etherael 16y ago
    The hardware design component I just can't bring myself to care about, a fork is for picking up food, a computer is for computing, I don't care about the sheen on the stainless steel on one or the other, and it puzzles the hell out of me why people do. But I guess that's just human nature or something. My "user experience" on a mac is utterly abysmal due to the lack of the customisations I use on linux and have been bound to inexorably over the years by muscle memory.
    - dieterrams 16y ago
      I can respect that. I've found it difficult to embrace Linux myself, because the "affordances should be visible!" part of my brain keeps recoiling against the command line interface, which is where the action is. But I can see how it can become extraordinarily powerful after you've reached a certain level of competence.
    - bonaldi 16y ago
      You found the OS X UI "bland and ugly" but caring similarly about the aesthetics of hardware is so inconceivable that it "puzzles the hell" out of you? I think you're getting your party lines crossed.
      - etherael 16y ago
        The actual software part that you interface with and concentrate on, yes, that part is definitely the part that I'm paying attention to when I'm using a computer. The black or white or magnesium bezel around it? Not so much, keyboards and mice once again yes, but I hate apple keyboards / mice too (not because of build quality, but because of layout / design)

etherael 16y ago

touche and a riposte, I'm well aware I'm not representative of the market for computers, but if you're here this probably applies to you also. So whilst you and the audience of mac users here may not be a massive brandwhore, that doesn't invalidate the point that a significant amount of the mac userbase actually are. And when you have a company that is selling fundamentally the same product with a different label on it and marking it up 40%, yes, that does tend to be the difference. Maybe back in the Power PC days you had a point, but what's inside the magnesium case is now pretty much the same as what's inside the black plastic one.

dieterrams 16y ago
Ignoring the fact that the hardware design is widely lauded as outpacing the competition, your argument is sort of like saying that two books are fundamentally the same if they're made of the same materials. Most users could care less if the computer's running on an x86 or PowerPC chip: everything is ultimately subordinate to user experience, cost, availability of desirable software, and interoperability. (At least two of those are highly contingent on the individual user: cost and availability of desirable software. If you're a heavy PC gamer, a Windows PC remains much more desirable than a Mac overall.) Historically, Macs have owned user experience, but lost on everything else. These days, cost is still relatively high (although historically lower, given the drop in component prices), but the other things have gotten better. Growth of the web, cross-platform file formats, ability to run Windows on Mac hardware, shift in gaming from PCs to consoles, etc. have done a lot to mitigate the disadvantages of Macs. This, by the way, is coming from someone who'd been using DOS and Windows up until a few years ago.
- etherael 16y ago
  The hardware design component I just can't bring myself to care about, a fork is for picking up food, a computer is for computing, I don't care about the sheen on the stainless steel on one or the other, and it puzzles the hell out of me why people do. But I guess that's just human nature or something. My "user experience" on a mac is utterly abysmal due to the lack of the customisations I use on linux and have been bound to inexorably over the years by muscle memory.
  - dieterrams 16y ago
    I can respect that. I've found it difficult to embrace Linux myself, because the "affordances should be visible!" part of my brain keeps recoiling against the command line interface, which is where the action is. But I can see how it can become extraordinarily powerful after you've reached a certain level of competence.
  - bonaldi 16y ago
    You found the OS X UI "bland and ugly" but caring similarly about the aesthetics of hardware is so inconceivable that it "puzzles the hell" out of you? I think you're getting your party lines crossed.
    - etherael 16y ago
      The actual software part that you interface with and concentrate on, yes, that part is definitely the part that I'm paying attention to when I'm using a computer. The black or white or magnesium bezel around it? Not so much, keyboards and mice once again yes, but I hate apple keyboards / mice too (not because of build quality, but because of layout / design)