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I can only "listen" to an audio book when I am not multi-tasking. Otherwise I find myself zone out of the book, and miss a huge chunk of it, then rewind to the

I can only "listen" to an audio book when I am not multi-tasking. Otherwise I find myself zone out of the book, and miss a huge chunk of it, then rewind to the point I thought I missed and rewind too much. Realize I have heard it before and let myself zone out again etc. I realize how inefficient live lectures are and how much I must have missed through my life.

fizixer 10y ago
I have the same problem. Even watching youtube lecture videos, I have to rewind so many times (just 10-30 seconds each time usually) that it takes an average of 2 hours to watch a 1 hour lecture video. (Though part of that is because I also pause the video frequently, either to take pen-and-paper notes, or spend time thinking while trying to understand the concepts). Live lecture is a total disaster for me now. I don't even bother.
- inputcoffee 10y ago
  Yes, I do the same thing. Funny thing is that I was a pretty good student, and was known to be able to drown out things and concentrate for long periods. The question is: Has the mobile phone changed my attention capacity? Or am I still relatively good, but humans are just bad at concentrating for a long periods and we should never have invented the lecture model?
- pitt1980 10y ago
  I'm reminded of Tyler Cowen's (and many other people's) advice about reading difficult books plow through it fast the first time, with the expectation that you'll come back and read it again later http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/01/question-deep-reading.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/01/que... I wonder if a similar strategy wouldn't work best for watching youtube lectures just go straight through the first time, with the expectation that you'll need to watch it a few times to truly grasp it -------- also the second strategy seems useful too "2. After finishing the classic, read a good deal of the secondary literature, keeping in mind that you now are looking for answers to some particular questions. That will structure and improve your investigation" ie - after you've watched a lecture, see if you can find a different source exploring the same topic sometimes seeing something described in different ways really helps something click
Chaebixi 10y ago
I think multi-tasking with an audiobook only works when the other task is one you can perform automatically (e.g. highway driving). If you're doing anything that requires any thought or decision making, then you might as well not bother with the book. Also, I think the kind of audiobook is important: 1. Fiction usually works best, since narratives and action are easy to follow. 2. Simple non-fiction is worse but still doable (I'm thinking bestseller-type popular nonfiction and narrative history). 3. Nonfiction with technical or conceptually challenging content is the worst, and really requires full undivided attention.
- NoGravitas 10y ago
  I agree. I can listen to podcasts or audiobooks while doing dishes, but that's about the limit.
  - inputcoffee 10y ago
    I wonder if that is because if you miss a part of the narrative, you can usually make out what is going on. It is rare when an author doesn't hang a lantern on an important plot device.
    - r00fus 10y ago
      I do more complex things but then I just go back 30 seconds or more if I have lost the plot.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > when the other task is one you can perform automatically (e.g. highway driving) Fucking hell no, please do focus your attention on driving.
  - 49531 10y ago
    Listening to audio while driving is pretty ubiquitous. Audiobooks are no different than talk radio.
  - 10y ago
Herodotus38 10y ago
Your comment got me thinking: in the past, the main ways of learning were through lecture and reading. I wonder if live lectures have always been as poorly efficient as they are now. With the invention of audio recording, video, internet etc... I could see how our modern ability to concentrate on one long topic have been reduced. I think back to Greek and Roman times when oratory was a larger part of education and I presume (perhaps without good reason) that the listening skills of the audience was greater.
- inputcoffee 10y ago
  Great point. I wonder if the mobile phone has changed our attention.
- sdenton4 10y ago
  Lecture sucks as a medium. There's a pile of education research on this. We succeed in spite of the shortcomings of lecture, not because of its strengths... And a lot of people who don't succeed in lecture-based structures cget a better chance at success as we could deploy other learning media.
  - GFischer 10y ago
    Even lecturers realize it's a total disaster, but there's a lot of inertia to overcome. Online MOOCs work so much better, but they don't have the social aspect and the live guidance factor.
  - Herodotus38 10y ago
    I completely agree and I've also seen the studies about retention rates of various types of learning. The confounder in my mind is that obviously all these studies were done since the advent of newer media options. I'm just wondering if we were able to redo the studies in people from long ago if there would be any difference at all? Possibly not, but it makes me wonder if there were, is there a way to train ourselves to learn better learn for lectures. Secondly, even if it is possible to be a better "lecture learner", is it even worth it (for example is there a ceiling effect?)
pmoriarty 10y ago
It really depends on what I'm doing. If I'm drawing or walking, for instance, I can do those things and focus on the book. If I'm trying to read something else or program, then it's always a matter of focusing on one or the other, and then it's like you say. The rewinding bit is why rewinding, bookmarking, and navigation features of audio players are critical to me. I really hate bare-bones audio player interfaces that make it a chore to do any of those things.
- chc 10y ago
  I feel like the main factor in whether I can do something and listen to an audiobook is whether I need to use language for the other task. For example, I can cook while listening to an audiobook, but I have to pause if I'm going to refer to the recipe, even though the process of alternately stirring a base and slicing vegetables without chopping off my finger requires more concentration than determining from the recipe which measuring spoon I need.
TillE 10y ago
I've had much better luck with podcasts. It's harder to tune out a conversation when multitasking, as opposed to a single narrator.
- goshx 10y ago
  Any recommendation? I have found many podcasts that use this format of mixing the narration with voices and sounds from people in the story and this is so distracting and annoying to me. I never go beyond one episode when that's the format.

fizixer 10y ago

I have the same problem. Even watching youtube lecture videos, I have to rewind so many times (just 10-30 seconds each time usually) that it takes an average of 2 hours to watch a 1 hour lecture video. (Though part of that is because I also pause the video frequently, either to take pen-and-paper notes, or spend time thinking while trying to understand the concepts). Live lecture is a total disaster for me now. I don't even bother.

inputcoffee 10y ago
Yes, I do the same thing. Funny thing is that I was a pretty good student, and was known to be able to drown out things and concentrate for long periods. The question is: Has the mobile phone changed my attention capacity? Or am I still relatively good, but humans are just bad at concentrating for a long periods and we should never have invented the lecture model?
pitt1980 10y ago
I'm reminded of Tyler Cowen's (and many other people's) advice about reading difficult books plow through it fast the first time, with the expectation that you'll come back and read it again later http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/01/question-deep-reading.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/01/que... I wonder if a similar strategy wouldn't work best for watching youtube lectures just go straight through the first time, with the expectation that you'll need to watch it a few times to truly grasp it -------- also the second strategy seems useful too "2. After finishing the classic, read a good deal of the secondary literature, keeping in mind that you now are looking for answers to some particular questions. That will structure and improve your investigation" ie - after you've watched a lecture, see if you can find a different source exploring the same topic sometimes seeing something described in different ways really helps something click

Chaebixi 10y ago

I think multi-tasking with an audiobook only works when the other task is one you can perform automatically (e.g. highway driving). If you're doing anything that requires any thought or decision making, then you might as well not bother with the book. Also, I think the kind of audiobook is important: 1. Fiction usually works best, since narratives and action are easy to follow. 2. Simple non-fiction is worse but still doable (I'm thinking bestseller-type popular nonfiction and narrative history). 3. Nonfiction with technical or conceptually challenging content is the worst, and really requires full undivided attention.

NoGravitas 10y ago
I agree. I can listen to podcasts or audiobooks while doing dishes, but that's about the limit.
- inputcoffee 10y ago
  I wonder if that is because if you miss a part of the narrative, you can usually make out what is going on. It is rare when an author doesn't hang a lantern on an important plot device.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    I do more complex things but then I just go back 30 seconds or more if I have lost the plot.
DanBC 10y ago
> when the other task is one you can perform automatically (e.g. highway driving) Fucking hell no, please do focus your attention on driving.
- 49531 10y ago
  Listening to audio while driving is pretty ubiquitous. Audiobooks are no different than talk radio.
- 10y ago

Herodotus38 10y ago

Your comment got me thinking: in the past, the main ways of learning were through lecture and reading. I wonder if live lectures have always been as poorly efficient as they are now. With the invention of audio recording, video, internet etc... I could see how our modern ability to concentrate on one long topic have been reduced. I think back to Greek and Roman times when oratory was a larger part of education and I presume (perhaps without good reason) that the listening skills of the audience was greater.

inputcoffee 10y ago
Great point. I wonder if the mobile phone has changed our attention.
sdenton4 10y ago
Lecture sucks as a medium. There's a pile of education research on this. We succeed in spite of the shortcomings of lecture, not because of its strengths... And a lot of people who don't succeed in lecture-based structures cget a better chance at success as we could deploy other learning media.
- GFischer 10y ago
  Even lecturers realize it's a total disaster, but there's a lot of inertia to overcome. Online MOOCs work so much better, but they don't have the social aspect and the live guidance factor.
- Herodotus38 10y ago
  I completely agree and I've also seen the studies about retention rates of various types of learning. The confounder in my mind is that obviously all these studies were done since the advent of newer media options. I'm just wondering if we were able to redo the studies in people from long ago if there would be any difference at all? Possibly not, but it makes me wonder if there were, is there a way to train ourselves to learn better learn for lectures. Secondly, even if it is possible to be a better "lecture learner", is it even worth it (for example is there a ceiling effect?)

pmoriarty 10y ago

It really depends on what I'm doing. If I'm drawing or walking, for instance, I can do those things and focus on the book. If I'm trying to read something else or program, then it's always a matter of focusing on one or the other, and then it's like you say. The rewinding bit is why rewinding, bookmarking, and navigation features of audio players are critical to me. I really hate bare-bones audio player interfaces that make it a chore to do any of those things.

chc 10y ago
I feel like the main factor in whether I can do something and listen to an audiobook is whether I need to use language for the other task. For example, I can cook while listening to an audiobook, but I have to pause if I'm going to refer to the recipe, even though the process of alternately stirring a base and slicing vegetables without chopping off my finger requires more concentration than determining from the recipe which measuring spoon I need.

TillE 10y ago

I've had much better luck with podcasts. It's harder to tune out a conversation when multitasking, as opposed to a single narrator.

goshx 10y ago
Any recommendation? I have found many podcasts that use this format of mixing the narration with voices and sounds from people in the story and this is so distracting and annoying to me. I never go beyond one episode when that's the format.