6 ms·

I'm glad they didn't move to ARM for the Surface. I bought my mom one for Christmas to replace her iPad 1 (her main computer at the time) and she loves it. Havi

by vdnkh 10y ago

I'm glad they didn't move to ARM for the Surface. I bought my mom one for Christmas to replace her iPad 1 (her main computer at the time) and she loves it. Having arthritis, a touchscreen hybrid works really well for her. Not having full access to Windows apps (because of ARM) would probably make it a non-starter though.

vezycash 10y ago
That's what the windows on ARM version is supposed to solve.
wtallis 10y ago
The Surface family started with both ARM and x86 models. The x86-based Pro was the only one that met with any success. The non-Pro Surface used NVidia Tegra for the first two generations before switching to Intel Atom.
cbhl 10y ago
Didn't Surface go the other way? They started with the ARM-based Surface and the Intel-based Surface Pro in the Windows 8 era, but seem to have stopped iterating on ARM-based designs.
pjc50 10y ago
They tried that with "Surface RT" and it was a total market failure.
- phr4ts 10y ago
  RT was a great product. If the OS wasn't named Windows, I'm certain it would have performed much better in the market. People who bought RT devices EXPECTED to run x86 software but couldn't. To understand the power of expectations, consider Surface. Ms originally positioned the Surface as an iPad competitor. And that singlehandedly doomed the Surface until it was repositioned as a MacBook competitor in subsequent releases.
  - floatboth 10y ago
    My mom bought a Nokia Windows RT tablet a few years ago — without expecting to run x86 software. It still sucked. You're stuck with Windows 8.x, Office 2013 and IE 11. The Store actually has some useful apps. But, like, there's no Firefox, even.
    - douche 10y ago
      Yeah, those are not much good for anything, at this point. The one I have for work labors to process the Office 365 Outlook webapp and our ticketing portal when I take it to meetings. The $40 Amazon Fire tablet I have feels snappier.
      - floatboth 10y ago
        Works fine as a remote desktop client though :D
    - nailer 10y ago
      Couldn't you install Windows 10 ARM?
      - floatboth 10y ago
        No? There's no official update and the device is very locked down. I haven't heard of an unofficial way to do that.
        nailer 10y ago
        Wouldn't Microsoft send all the devices a free Windows 10 upgrade? Or was that Intel only?
  - shuntress 10y ago
    Sorry for being so pedantic but Microsoft ORIGINALLY positioned the Surface as smart furniture. Pixel Sense used to be called Surface until Microsoft switched the names around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense
mtgx 10y ago
That was Windows RT, and I don't think Surface has had ARM versions since 2-3 years ago. Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs.
- macintux 10y ago
  > Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs. How would they pull off that miracle? Emulating Intel on an ARM chip would be sllloooowwwwwww.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    I read somewhere it would be a binary translator. As you have the WinAPI calls natively on ARM, they translate x86 to ARM on the fly and store the result. Not sure if that's true or not.
  - Grazester 10y ago
    http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonstrates-full-windows-10-with-photoshop-on-arm-chips http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonst... ...You were saying?
    - macintux 10y ago
      I admit, I didn't realize they'd already done it with some success. Proof will be in the pudding, however.
  - nereye 10y ago
    It does not seem slow here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U.
vmarsy 10y ago
Regarding the full access to apps on ARM: http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows...

by vdnkh 10y ago

vezycash 10y ago

That's what the windows on ARM version is supposed to solve.

wtallis 10y ago

The Surface family started with both ARM and x86 models. The x86-based Pro was the only one that met with any success. The non-Pro Surface used NVidia Tegra for the first two generations before switching to Intel Atom.

cbhl 10y ago

Didn't Surface go the other way? They started with the ARM-based Surface and the Intel-based Surface Pro in the Windows 8 era, but seem to have stopped iterating on ARM-based designs.

pjc50 10y ago

They tried that with "Surface RT" and it was a total market failure.

phr4ts 10y ago
RT was a great product. If the OS wasn't named Windows, I'm certain it would have performed much better in the market. People who bought RT devices EXPECTED to run x86 software but couldn't. To understand the power of expectations, consider Surface. Ms originally positioned the Surface as an iPad competitor. And that singlehandedly doomed the Surface until it was repositioned as a MacBook competitor in subsequent releases.
- floatboth 10y ago
  My mom bought a Nokia Windows RT tablet a few years ago — without expecting to run x86 software. It still sucked. You're stuck with Windows 8.x, Office 2013 and IE 11. The Store actually has some useful apps. But, like, there's no Firefox, even.
  - douche 10y ago
    Yeah, those are not much good for anything, at this point. The one I have for work labors to process the Office 365 Outlook webapp and our ticketing portal when I take it to meetings. The $40 Amazon Fire tablet I have feels snappier.
    - floatboth 10y ago
      Works fine as a remote desktop client though :D
  - nailer 10y ago
    Couldn't you install Windows 10 ARM?
    - floatboth 10y ago
      No? There's no official update and the device is very locked down. I haven't heard of an unofficial way to do that.
      - nailer 10y ago
        Wouldn't Microsoft send all the devices a free Windows 10 upgrade? Or was that Intel only?
- shuntress 10y ago
  Sorry for being so pedantic but Microsoft ORIGINALLY positioned the Surface as smart furniture. Pixel Sense used to be called Surface until Microsoft switched the names around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense

mtgx 10y ago

That was Windows RT, and I don't think Surface has had ARM versions since 2-3 years ago. Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs.

macintux 10y ago
> Any future ARM Windows devices will have full compatibility with all programs. How would they pull off that miracle? Emulating Intel on an ARM chip would be sllloooowwwwwww.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  I read somewhere it would be a binary translator. As you have the WinAPI calls natively on ARM, they translate x86 to ARM on the fly and store the result. Not sure if that's true or not.
- Grazester 10y ago
  http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonstrates-full-windows-10-with-photoshop-on-arm-chips http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13881800/microsoft-demonst... ...You were saying?
  - macintux 10y ago
    I admit, I didn't realize they'd already done it with some success. Proof will be in the pudding, however.
- nereye 10y ago
  It does not seem slow here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GlGglbu1U.

vmarsy 10y ago

Regarding the full access to apps on ARM: http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows-10-arm-desktop-apps-support-qualcomm http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/7/13866936/microsoft-windows...